Rear Admiral Nancy Lacore On Valor and A Life of Military Service
Show Snapshot:
For 32 years, naval aviator Rear Admiral Nancy Lacore has made military service and love of country a central part of her life. She joins me to talk about life as a military family, why the Navy is both a career and a community, how she balances six kids and overseas deployment, and why valor knows no gender.
As we mark Memorial Day, we also cover the nonprofit she created to honor the U.S. military women who made the ultimate sacrifice while supporting combat since 9/11.
In This Episode We Cover:
1. How Nancy first decided to give the U.S. Navy a try in college.
2. What’s a NROTC scholarship and how it can help pay for college.
3. A snapshot of Nancy’s 32-year military career.
4. What it takes to become a helicopter pilot.
5. How Nancy and her husband navigated dual naval careers and six children.
6. Military service as a calling, a career and a community.
7. How getting to midlife has strengthened Nancy’s outlook on service.
8. What prompted Nancy to launch Valor Run – a nonprofit raising funds and awareness of U.S. service women killed in combat.
Quotable:
As a woman who had just served in Afghanistan, I really had no idea who had been killed, how many, what services. So I decided to do this Valor Run, and I ran one mile for 161 women—that was the number at the time who had been killed in Operation Enduring Freedom and Operation Iraqi Freedom —and I did it over seven days and used it to raise money for two nonprofit organizations.
Family is a big driver for me. And that feeds into the Navy being a calling because the Navy is as a family. Thirty-two years and you’re still running into people that you know through college, NROTC, that you met in flight school. It becomes one big family of support because we all know what the other ones are going through.
Transcript
Katie Fogarty (00:02):
Welcome to A Certain Age, a show for women on life after 50 who are unafraid to age out loud. I’m your host, Katie Fogarty.
All May long, A Certain Age is looking at relationships from a variety of angles and exploring how they evolve in midlife. Today I’m joined by naval aviator Rear Admiral Nancy Lacore who is currently serving as Chief of Staff, U.S. Naval Forces Europe, U.S. Naval Forces Africa, Sixth Fleet, Naples, Italy. She has served in Afghanistan and Djibouti. She’s a helicopter aviator with approximately 1,300 flight hours in military aircraft. She holds numerous awards and commendations, and last but certainly not least, she is the mom of six kids. She joins me today to talk about love of country and life as a military family. Welcome, Nancy.
Nancy Lacore (00:49):
Thanks, Katie, I’m happy to be here.
Katie (00:51):
I’m so delighted to have you joining me today. Can you just sort of set the stage and tell our listeners where you’re joining me from and what brings you there?
Nancy (01:00):
Yeah. So, I’m calling in from Naples, Italy and I’ve been here since last fall when the Navy gave me orders to serve at the command you just identified, Naval Forces Europe, Naval Forces Africa, and U.S. Sixth Fleet, and that is the headquarters command that I’m at right now. I’m, as you said, the Chief of Staff. So, been here for, gosh, about 8 or 9 months and was previously assigned to the same headquarters for the two years preceding that in a different position and at part-time status. So, got to bring the family with me for this move, which is fantastic.
Katie (01:36):
What a fantastic place to be with your family Nancy. And you have such a cool career that brought you there. I have had so many women on this show who have fantastic jobs; I’ve had numerous authors, many doctors, but you are our first naval aviator. How did you decide to make the military a career?
Nancy (01:56):
Well, I got my initial urging to join the Navy was from my father. He had attended Holy Cross on an NROTC scholarship and he was the one who encouraged me to think about doing that myself and so when you do that, go to college on an ROTC scholarship, you get a year free. Like literally. So, they pay for your tuition and you don’t incur an obligation to serve until you start your second year on scholarship. So, I assumed I would most likely walk away after that free freshman year, but I didn’t. And then I kind of assumed after I got commissioned, I would do the minimum time required, and walk away, but I didn’t. And then I married another naval aviator a few years down the road and we had our first child and once again, I thought I would walk away and I didn’t. And I sort of fell into this career and I’m still here, 32 years later.
Katie (02:52):
That is amazing. And I should let our listeners know that Nancy and I went to college together. We went to Holy Cross College, Nancy was a year ahead of me. I remember seeing you walking around campus in your uniform. I had some other friends who were in Navy ROTC as well, and Nancy and I stayed connected because her sister, Sue, is one of my dearest friends from school. So, it’s so amazing that you’ve been in this job for 30 years. What does that career trajectory look like? So, when you get out of college, what comes next? Do you have to do additional training? Walk us through a little bit.
Nancy (03:28):
Yeah so, for the first ten years I would say my career was pretty typical for a naval aviator. I learned how to fly helicopters, which can take a fair amount of time—anywhere from a year to 18 months. And then I got assigned to a squadron in Norfolk, Virginia. That was sea duty which meant I was going to deploy. So, I would deploy onboard ships as part of a helicopter detachment of around 25 to 30 people. I was lucky enough to get deployed to the Mediterranean, also got to go into the Arabian Gulf, and then later had a tour deployment in the North Atlantic in the winter which was interesting, to say the least.
After that initial sea duty, then you go to shore duty, which means you don’t deploy and you just, you know, have kind of a 9-to-5-type job. So for that, I was assigned as a flight instructor at our helicopter training squadron in San Diego and that is where… I was married to my husband at that point and we were pretty set on having a family so after we kind of spent a few months debating which one of us was going to leave the Navy, me or my husband, I ultimately decided that I would transition to the Reserve component of the Navy and made the decision that I was not actively going to fly anymore because of the time commitment incurred and knowing the impact of having time out of the cockpit due to, what I anticipated would be, a few pregnancies.
So again, kinda like I just talked about, I thought I would just do my 20 years—20 years gets you retirement in the Navy—so I kinda thought; “Oh, I’ll just finish out the next 10 years in Reserve and then I’ll retire,” and I didn’t. So, it seems like the Reserve was the right fit for me and my family and I was able to kind of manage both. You know, do a lot of reserve time when I wanted to, scale back when I needed to. So, as I said, I do not fly in the Reserve but I have a lot of air command and control type experience in the reserve and then finally worked my way up until I was able to get into the Command position and I was running the Reserve Unit on my own.
So, I had two opportunities to do that as a Captain. One of those opportunities, oddly enough, I was supporting the current command I’m at, Naval Forces Europe and Africa, their reserve status. And then that gave me the opportunity to do a lot of travel to Africa, particularly in the Gulf of Guinea region, which was very warm and very interesting. And as you mentioned at the very beginning, I was mobilized twice during my time in the Reserve which means I was involuntarily brought back on active duty. Brought back to full-time status, and both of those times meant I was going to be away from my family. So, that was certainly challenging for all of us. First time was in Afghanistan, and then the second time I served in Djibouti, commanding a base there and then was fortunate enough to be selected for promotion to Admiral while I was in Djibouti, and then even more fortunate enough, I got to do two tours as an Admiral here in this command. So…
Katie (06:38):
And so, when you were in Afghanistan when you were in Djibouti… How long were those tours?
Nancy (06:44):
They were both a year. The tour in Afghanistan was cut short a bit, I ended up doing about 9 to 10 months on that one. But both planned to be a year, including some training ahead of time. So, probably all total, about 14 to 16 months.
Katie (06:59):
And so, how do you make that work out? Because you do, we mentioned at the top of the show, you have six kids, you talked about how you were able to, while you were during that decade of sort of shore duty and in the reserves, be present. But in these times that you were away, how did you navigate that? Because that’s challenging for any working parent when they're traveling for work. But for an extended period of time, how did your family make that work out?
Nancy (07:24):
You know, it was very intimidating to think about it because I was the primary caregiver. So, the thought of not being the primary caregiver was really challenging for me, but I knew that my husband Pat is probably the best dad in the world because I can walk out the door with zero prep and know that I’ll still have six kids when I get back. [both laugh] They might not be in the same state and the house might not look the same, but I was pretty confident it was all going to work out. So between Pat, and then, really just our extended family, my mom would come and stay and help out, pick the kids up, and do some of the after-school stuff. And then the—
Katie (08:11):
It takes a village. I think it takes a village no matter what your job is because there’s always…
Nancy (08:16):
It absolutely does.
Katie (08:16):
… You know, you need people to help with the carpools, and to sort of be a confidant, to step in. When you’re the mom of multiple children, you know, you can’t be at every back-to-school night or every school play because there are inevitable conflicts, so it’s great to have your husband Pat and your mom to kind of, pitch in.
So, how about the kids though? Sometimes kids are sad when their parent walks out the door. Do you see that your family views your job as part of a calling for the family? Because it really takes all of your kids to kind of be a part of this, to make it work.
Nancy (08:55):
It does, yeah, that is very true. And I recall, I mean the first time I left for that almost year to Afghanistan, some of them were young. My youngest was 4, the oldest was 14. Everybody handles it in their own way, but I would say overall, everybody was just sad and teary and weepy when I left and it was… You know, communications were different even 10 years ago, so they didn’t have phones, so it was dad sitting them in front of a laptop on the weekend trying to Skype or something and not working so well. And then the second time I left it was a little bit different. They were a little bit older, and I think one thing that kinda sticks with me when I broke it to the kids that I was going to have to leave again for an extended period of time, and this was just less than 5 years later, my youngest daughter was like, I mean crying, instantly crying, and looks at me and she goes, “Mom, I’m really proud of what you do.” So, even in her own pain, she was able to see that I was doing something that needed to be done.
Katie (10:00):
That’s so powerful. What a fabulous memory. That sort of is a great segue into the question that I want to ask you. You talked about how you first tried this on for size as a career in college for a year, and thought you know, “Let me see.” And then you wound up sticking with it and making it an enormous part of your life. Do you see being a part of the military as a calling? I mean it’s a job, but also, in some ways, it can be a calling because you’re serving something larger than yourself. What inspired…
Nancy (10:34):
It is.
Katie (10:35):
… Do you see it that way?
Nancy (10:38):
Yeah, I definitely do, and I think most of us who serve see it that way. Of course, there’s a percentage that it is a job and it’s a way to get to college for some, but would say overall, most of the people that I’m serving with do see it as a calling. Family is a big driver for me and by that, I think, that sort of feeds into the Navy being a calling because the Navy is as a family. 32 years and you’re still running into people that you know through college, NROTC and that you met in flight school. It’s just that constant, you know, seeing people again and again and it just becomes one big family of support because we all know what the other ones are going through.
Katie (11:22):
Right, to have that community is probably so important because the job is incredibly unique. There aren’t that many naval aviators or there are not that many people who’ve done these different types of deployments so, I imagine even your friends in your daily life probably don’t get it in the same way. I want to ask about what we don’t get in just a minute. We’re going to take a very quick break but when we return I want to explore you know, what don’t people like me, who are not serving, understand about this community? We’ll be back in a minute.
[Ad break]
Katie (13:08):
Okay, Nancy, we’re back from our break and I want to ask that question again. What don’t people who serve in the military understand about it? What do you wish non-active military people knew, what it’s like to be part of this community?
Nancy (13:24):
A couple of things. I think one that kind of jumps into my mind would be that you look at me at 32 years like I had to have that calling 32 years ago. So, we grow our executives, which is I think, different, right, from corporate America. The folks who are going to be our Admirals in a couple of decades are the ones who are getting commissioned right now out of NROTC or the Naval Academy and so it is a big investment in people. The Navy is all about platforms and carriers and jets but we make a huge investment in our people and I would really like that—if anybody wants to take anything away from that—to understand how much the Navy values the people, and how much time and money we invest in our people because that’s how we get our leaders.
Katie (14:15):
Yeah, that makes so much sense, that the people are sort of the greatest resource. So, when you talk about the Navy investing in you, what does that look like? Is it education, is it training? Tell us a little bit more about that.
Nancy (14:27):
Well, I mean, first of all, you know, right out of the gates, flight school was a pretty significant investment in me. They paid me to be an [Inaudible 0:14:36][1] so they paid me a salary and then they paid for all that flight training which I think would be tons of money if I’d had to do that on my own outside of the military. And then there is training. There are career milestones where they want you to get an education and they give you opportunities to get an education. Sometimes they send you to a civilian university for a year or two to get an education, you know, take your uniform off, hang it up for two years, but still get paid. So, we definitely value our people and we try to get more creative about how we can, you know, accommodate people like Pat and me. We were both in the military, and offer solutions that will help keep those families together and in for the long run.
Katie (15:23):
You know Nancy, several years ago I spoke on a panel, it was at a conference for women business owners. And one of the panelists was a naval aviator as well and she asked the audience a question about… She did one of these things where she said, “Show of hands if you have been in the military at any point?” She looked around the room, there were probably 3,000 people in the room and not a single hand went up. And she was shocked because that’s obviously not the response she was expecting. [Nancy laughs] And I was a little surprised myself. Here we were in midtown Manhattan, so maybe not necessarily near an active military base, but it was very telling about the fact that there are large constituencies that have no firsthand experience with the organization of the military. So, there is probably a real disconnect about, you know, what it’s like. So, this is why I’m so thrilled that you’re on the show giving us a little window and a little backstory about what it’s like to be a working mom in the Navy. What it’s like to be a military family. Do you find that military families kind of stick together because you have this commonality? Is that important? Or do you find that you have people in your life who are like those 3,000 people who didn’t put their hands up, who don’t know much about the military?
Nancy (16:57):
Yeah, so I think we have a good mix of both in our lives. We’ve been in Norfolk until we came to Italy, we’ve been in Norfolk for 18 years which is home of the largest Navy base, so there was plenty of Navy families around us, but there were also not. There were also a lot of folks who did not have that experience and many of our closest friends were not part of the military. The nice thing is when you encounter somebody who knows the Navy, or really any branch of the military, because they served because a cousin served because a dad served, there is an instant connection because you understand the lifestyle and you understand the commitment.
Katie (17:38):
Nancy, several years ago you launched an effort to honor the U.S. Military women who have served our nation since 9/11, especially those that made the ultimate sacrifice while supporting combat operations in Iraq and Afghanistan. This was called Valor Run. I would love for you to walk us through how you launched this and let our listeners know about this effort.
Nancy (18:04):
Thanks, Katie, I would like to talk about that because it was and is very important to me because it combined two things I cared about quite a bit; running and women who serve our nation. For me, it was kind of a journey of how to integrate myself back into normal life when I got back from Afghanistan. So, I did a lot of running and it just sort of, kinda was like, “Well, I need to do something with this running” and then combine that with a trip to the Women’s Memorial, which is up outside of Arlington Cemetery and started flipping through a book and seeing pictures of women and then recognizing, “Woah, these women were all killed in Operation Enduring Freedom and Operation Iraqi Freedom.” And I had no idea. As a woman who had just served in Afghanistan, I really had no idea who had been killed, how many, what services. And so, I was like, “You know what, I can do something about this.” So, that’s when I decided to do this Valor Run and I ran one mile for 161 women—that was the number at the time who had been killed in those two campaigns—and I did it over seven days and used it to raise money for two other nonprofit organizations. And then ultimately turned that Valor Run into its own little nonprofit.
Katie (19:26):
So, tell us about the name Valor Run because it’s got a really beautiful genesis.
Nancy (19:31):
Yeah, it does. So, the longer title was "Valor Run, Valor Knows No Gender." And that piece of it, “valor knows no gender” was a quote from President Obama, sort of recognizing that war doesn’t matter, and they don’t care. When you get into combat, it doesn’t matter what your gender is because you’re all there and you’re all equally at risk.
Katie (19:55):
Right, and that you’re serving together. I also love the word “valor” because it has such poetry and it’s just such a way of talking about patriotism in a way that’s so beautiful.
So, you ran 161 miles, am I correct? [laughs] That’s pretty impressive. How long did you have to train? You said you did it over 7 days, but how long did it take you to train and run 161 miles in a week’s period?
Nancy (20:25):
The training took a lot longer than the run. [both laugh] I trained for about 9 months but I was eager to train. As I said, I was running a lot with no real purpose, and so it gave me a purpose and kind of focused my running and I was like, “You know what, if I can get to Day One without being hurt, I will be able to do this.” So, I was very focused on training the right way, got to Day One and I can tell you I did not run one mile by myself of those 161 miles. I had people I’ve never met before join me along the road and run with me, so it was just a very fantastic experience.
Katie (21:02):
I remember seeing the images on your website when you were doing this run and really just being knocked out. It was small children, it was, you know, people who were much older than you are, who were running. It was such a beautiful— people in uniform, people not. Just such a wonderful mix of people. Were your kids involved in that with you? Is that something you were able to pull them into?
Nancy (21:29):
Yes, and some of them are still involved in it too. So yes, they all came along, my husband drove an RV and brought them along. They didn’t all come along for every day of the run but when we were near Norfolk, they joined in the RV. Many of them came on training runs with me, some of them on their bikes, some of them actually ran with me, and all met me at the finish line which was really moving.
Katie (21:55):
It’s such a great way of including your family in something that’s so important to you.
You’ve talked a little bit in the show about how Pat, your husband, was in the Navy too, is he still currently in the Navy? What’s his status?
Nancy (22:06):
He retired two years ago after 29 years of service.
Katie (22:11):
Okay, and then you have a son who’s also up and coming, is that correct?
Nancy (22:16):
That is correct, I have a son who is a Second Class Midshipman and the Naval Academy.
Katie (22:20):
Amazing, this has really been a family experience for you.
Let’s shift gears for a minute though and talk about aging a little bit, Nancy. Because you know that the premise of this show is women who are aging out loud and making the most of this next chapter. You have been in the military for 32 years. Now that you’re in midlife do you feel like your relationship to your job or the way you experience patriotism, your relationship to your country has changed in any way?
Nancy (22:51):
Yeah, definitely. I think as I get older, I have a new perspective on service, particularly as I serve our youth committing to serve. You mentioned my son, but not just about him, because I have an opportunity to see our young sailors on ships, to see our young security personnel. When I was in Djibouti, the youngest people on the base were the folks who did security on the base perimeter for us—kids 18 to 20 years old and they are the first line of defense between danger and us. And it’s that really that I think being an older person in the service, looking at the youth, being like, “Wow, it’s amazing that we still have people that commit to serve in our all-volunteer force."
Katie (23:40):
And thank goodness we do. It’s so wonderful that people are willing to put themselves in service for our country. I remember hearing a story years ago from my father when he talked about coming home from Vietnam. And he, you know, was coming home from the airport, I think still wearing his uniform and the taxi driver asked him about what he was up to and he said he just had gotten home and the taxi driver screeched over, pulled over, hopped out, and gave him a salute and just said, "Thank you for your service.” And this is a story that my dad has told over and over again because I don’t think we thank people enough who are in service to our country, I don’t think we thank people enough who are keeping the trains on the tracks for us during the pandemic. And it’s wonderful to have the opportunity to recognize them, so I love that you shared that you look at these young, naval staff members and you’re inspired by them.
What would you say to somebody who is considering the military? Most of the listeners on this show are past the age where this is going to be a career option. [both laugh] Although I do say, "You’re never too late and you’re never too old," but you might be a little bit too late…
Nancy (24:49):
You might be in this case. [laughs]
Katie (24:50):
We might be in this case. But if they were talking to somebody in their family, like their children, their nieces, their nephews, people in their lives, and they wanted to let them know that this career is out there, what would you be saying to them? What would you be saying to somebody in your own life that you would want to encourage to maybe be thinking about the military?
Nancy (25:11):
You know, I get asked this question a lot and I do talk to a lot of young people. My peers and people below me are constantly asking me to talk to high schoolers and college. I would say you can’t convince anybody to do this. I really think it’s inherently in somebody or it’s inherently not in somebody to do it. But what you can do is educate them on the opportunities that the military brings; its job security, first of all, because we’re always going to need a military; great benefits; educational opportunities. So, it’s more of an education piece than actually trying to convince people that they want to serve because I think people have to come to that conclusion on their own. And just like with my son, it was never like, “You should go to the Naval Academy, you should go join the Navy.” He came to that conclusion on his own. When he debated about, “Do I go to regular college or do I go to not college at the Naval Academy?” We did not weigh in at all because there was no way I would push somebody to not go to college and go to the Naval Academy.
Katie (26:19):
Right, that’s such smart advice. I think you can’t push people to do anything, honestly. I’m a mom of three and you can guide your kids, you can educate them, you can show them different options, but ultimately we need to be in charge of our own lives in order to really succeed and it makes so much sense that this type of job that really requires such a commitment, requires a lot of sacrifices. You’ve alluded to, it was hard at different times when you had to go serve, you had to say goodbye to your children. There’s sacrifice involved with this job that a regular job does not have, right? Your 9-to-5 corporate job doesn’t require that level of sacrifice, necessarily. So, to have it be a calling makes so much sense. But I think that you’ve really shared that this is such a special community that’s on the other side of that once you make that decision.
Nancy, it has been so much fun learning more about the Navy, hearing about Valor Run, hearing about how you make this work as a working mom of six. Thank you so much for coming on the show today, I so loved having you.
Nancy (27:26):
Oh, it was great talking to you and I really appreciate the opportunity really to talk about the Navy.
Katie (27:31):
Thank you so much, Nancy.
This wraps A Certain Age, a show for women over 50 who are aging without apology. And this also wraps our May shows and our month-long look at relationships from a variety of angles. We kicked off the month with Melissa Schultz, who coaches us on navigating an empty nest as May’s graduation season kicks into high gear and the kids move out and on. Jody Day joined us to talk about life as a childless woman in a culture that puts motherhood on a pedestal. We dive into sex and dating after a marriage ends with memoirist, Laura Friedman Williams, and sex expert Tracey Cox, author of Great Sex After 50 walks us through must-know info on age-proofing your libido.
Join me next week as we kick off June when we feature four female entrepreneurs building powerhouse companies and brands. See you next time and until then: age boldly, beauties.