Sex and Intimacy in Midlife with a Sexpert and Marriage Therapist
Sponsored by Elektra Health
Show Snapshot:
Sexpert and licensed marriage therapist Dr. Juliana Hauser helps us rethink and reimagine sex, sexuality, and relationships in midlife. We cover discovering (and asking!) for what you want in bed, reigniting the spark in a long-term relationship, and how to navigate a new sex life after a divorce or death.
Bonus! We get into sex toys, lubes, vibrators, and more.
In This Episode We Cover:
1. Four common issues women that cause women to seek out a sex therapist.
2. Do you and your partner have mismatched desire? We cover ideas to help. Plus, a simple tool to uncover what you (and your partner) really want in bed.
3. How to be responsible for your own vibrancy.
4. Desire, arousal, and keeping relationships spark-y.
5. The role of communication, surrender, and vulnerability in sexual wellness.
6. Why kissing is the “canary in the coal mine” for sex problems with partners.
7. Claiming sexual agency, reigniting a spark, and getting back into the dating pool after a relationship ends.
8. What’s an age mentor? And having one might be the key to happy aging.
9. Sex toys for beginners (and pros!). Plus, lubes and vibrators.
Quotable:
I think sex toys are a beautiful way to get to know how your body works and how it receives pleasure. There are so many toys out there and you want to see what your body likes.
I don’t use the word libido. I use the word desire. And no one comes to me and says, “I have the perfect amount of desire.” Everyone thinks they have too much, or too little, or they’re wondering if they do. So, we start with that. You get to decide how you want your relationship to desire to be.
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Transcript
Katie Fogarty (0:06):
Welcome to A Certain Age, a show for women who are unafraid to age out loud. Beauties, time to turn the volume on your car radio up, pump up the sound on your phone, wherever you are listening to this show, you’re not gonna want to miss a word. We are rethinking and reimagining sex, sexuality, and relationships with expert Dr. Juliana Hauser. A licensed marriage and family therapist, Dr. Hauser is a PhD in counseling, education, and a pro in helping women and men understand their sexuality and how it affects every aspect of our lives; our view of ourselves, our relationships, and the world. If you are thinking to yourself: what sex life? If you are looking to reignite a spark in yourself or a relationship, if you want a new sex life after divorce or death, or if you’re simply sex curious and want to learn from a pro, stick around this show is for you. Welcome, Juliana.
Dr. Juliana Hauser (1:04):
Thank you so much, I’m excited to have this conversation with you Katie.
Katie (1:07):
Yeah, I’m really thrilled. I’ve had the chance to actually talk with Juliana before, I met her through a mutual friend, we got to have dinner one night, we were on a panel this past week led by Kindra and Revel about sex and intimacy. I know her to be such a wonderful, knowledgeable, compassionate expert on this subject so, I’m really thrilled to share you with our listeners today. Juliana, you help clients rethink and reimagine sexuality. What are the top issues that clients come to you with?
Juliana (1:43):
Yes, so there’s a variety of things. It honestly depends on gender and if they’re in a relationship or not, but usually four things really come to mind. One is, they want to know if they’re normal. I don’t love the word “normal,” but if what they’re going through, is this common or is this something different, or something they should be alarmed about? They want to normalize what their experience is because there’s not a lot of information out there. So, how do we find out if what we’re thinking and feeling is okay? So, I hear that. I have a lot of people that ask me questions about finding pleasure and orgasm, people who are partnered if they have a mismatched desire. And people who are in a transition in their life and ready to reclaim their sexuality like you were speaking in the intro and wanting to have an elevated sex education.
Katie (2:34):
So, let’s start with mismatched desire. If you’re in a partnership with somebody, be it a spouse or simply a romantic partner, and your libido and sex drive feels like it’s out of whack, how do you counsel patients to address that in the bedroom?
Juliana (2:51):
The first thing that I do is to say, we need to step back and look at desire in a different way and not from a medical model but to see it coming at us holistically. So, I don’t use the word libido, I really use the word desire. And no one comes to me, I don’t come across people that say, “I have the perfect amount of desire, it’s perfect.” [Katie laughs] Everyone thinks that they have too much or too little, or they’re wondering if they do because there’s this definition that someone somewhere out there said that there’s a perfect way to feel connected to your sexual arousal and desire and it’s ridiculous. So, we start with that, which is, you get to decide how you want your relationship with desire to be. And I don’t use the word high or low, I really just like speaking in terms of, how are you feeling about it? And my sex drive may be different than yours but we’re both happy with it and that’s what matters, not if it’s high or low.
So, if you’re partnered with somebody, then we have to talk about so, how does each person want to feel in their connection with their desire? How are they individually feeling about it? And then how do we get that connected? I try to really find optimism for the couple because that’s part of the problem too is like, how in the world, we are oceans apart, how are we ever going to find this back to one another? And again, we rework it, and then I ask them to look at the vibrancy in their life. What is it that’s bringing a spark to their joy, to their pleasure, outside of sexual connection, and outside of their relationship? And what is bringing them vibrancy? Where in their life are they the most vibrant? And those answers are always really fascinating. At first, clients will be reticent of like, why are we doing this? [Katie laughs] Why are we talking about my trapeze class makes me feel alive? And really, it’s so important to understand because we can get in ruts in our lives, especially the older we get, we are so busy and we are so, our interests are spread out that we forget that there is wonderment in life and a joy in life that really starts within. And if you can be responsible for your own vibrancy and find space for yourself to find joy and pleasure, then there is a clear link with your desire.
So, we get at that, we have those conversations, we really work on connection outside of that and getting tuned into each other’s vibrancy, and tuned in to what feels spark, I call it “sparky” inside of you. And then we look at okay, so how do we, on your own, as a couple define what feels right for the couple relationship, and desire, and arousal? A lot of time, people will talk about initiation, that they think whoever initiates sex and sexual connection is the one who has the most desire, and that’s actually not true either. So, really trying to educate people on what we’re really speaking of. And again, with most things within sex and sexuality, we’re not sure even talking the same thing. We use the words but we don’t really define them or look at the concept and that’s the same thing when we’re looking at desire. So, after that, we start looking at safety. I found safety to be a really big component to people even being interested in having a sexual connection.
Katie (6:09):
What do you mean by safety?
Juliana (6:11):
Yeah, so I’m not speaking about physical because that’s obviously a baseline. But I mean, I love asking the question, what makes you feel safe in a conversation? What makes you feel safe in a relationship to show up authentically with who you are? Again, it’s really interesting, people answer it differently. I have couples that have been together thirty years and they cannot answer that for the other person. “I don’t know. I guess be nice?” Well, what does being nice mean? And being clear about what your partner needs to feel safe with you, to open up, to be vulnerable, to surrender, to communicate what they want and don’t want, is enormous, and often overlooked. So, we talk about safety. Each person decides what they need in the relationship, in the interaction. They communicate it clearly to the other and then make sure they understand it and we put it to practice. All of this happens before we’re even talking about sexual connection. We set the stage in that way. And I really encourage everyone to task themselves what they need to feel safe in the context of— You have to have a bit of surrender and vulnerability in order to have a sexual connection.
So, then we talk about, and I ask this too: are you all good at sex? Do you all like how you have sex with each other? Do you have just a couple of things you do? One move that’s the way to do it? [Katie laughs] Or, do you have a repertoire of things that you can choose from? And if you’ve been with somebody a long time, it can be difficult, you don’t want to hurt their feelings, just say, “I actually, I don’t know how to tell you this, but I don’t love the way we kiss.” You don’t say, "I don’t love the way you kiss,” you don’t do the blame, you say “we.” And that can be difficult—
Katie (7:59):
I can only imagine how would you have those conversations with somebody you’ve been with 30 years? I would love to hear these suggestions or prompts that you offer to people to have this kind of conversation which feels very vulnerable as you alluded to. How do you have that conversation with a partner you’ve had forever? And how do you have that conversation with somebody who is brand new?
Juliana (8:19):
Yeah, exactly. It is, it’s very different compared with someone new and someone that’s been long term. If it’s long-term, you have to have a team approach to it. As I said, it’s the small thing like saying, “we.” But also, let’s look at this as a phase of curiosity. I’ve said this to you before that I love the sound of orgasm, and I love the sound of “Huh” and the sound of “Huh” is a place of curiosity and that is going to be the key of changing things in a long term relationship. Let’s be curious about changing things. Let’s change things up and let’s have a very safe conversation about things that are working and things that aren’t working. Or things that we’d like to try to change versus things that we want to really protect and that feel sacred between us. If you both have that commitment to not taking things personally but really doing things that benefit the team, then that opens you up for things that you haven’t been able to say for a long time. And if you hire someone, a third party, someone like me, then I can ask and I can say, “All right, so let’s just put it out there, how do you feel about your kissing?” I always ask couples about their kissing. I think it’s really a canary in the mine and it tells me a lot about the couple’s sexual connection when I ask about their kissing practices and their experience with kissing. And then I’ll ask them individually, do you feel skilled at oral sex? Do you feel like your partner is skilled at oral sex? And what are the best things that you like about what they do? And specificity. And that can help too, to kind of have an excuse and someone else asking it for you.
And then I had this exercise that I call the four-quadrant exercise and this is also a beautiful way to introduce this conversation to a partner that’s long term. But you can also do it with someone you just met and I’ll get back to answering that question too about what to do about having those conversations with somebody new. But the four-quadrant exercise is a favorite of mine. You just have a piece of paper, you put a line vertical and horizontal and you have four different topics. One is, at the top left, sex acts that you have done that you want to try again, do again. Sex acts that you have done that you think you’re done with. Like, I think I’m past my phase with this.
Katie (10:37):
We’re done, that’s over. That’s over. [laughs]
Juliana (10:41):
[laughs] Yes, we have passed that phase of life. Sex acts that you haven’t done that you’re like, that sounds pretty good, let’s try that, let’s see. And then sex acts that you haven’t done that you’re like, yeah that feels still like a no, like a yuck to me. So, you have these four quadrants, and then you have a really wide list and range of sex acts; everything from kissing your hand, to sucking toes, to the most deprived sex act you could ever think of. You want to have at least 40 sex acts to choose from.
Katie (11:15):
Wow.
Juliana (11:15):
And then you go through each of the quadrants and you put them there. And if you do this, if you’re single, this is very valuable to be able to do your yeses and your noes, I called yucks and yums, that you look at— And this is just this moment in time, it’s just what you’re thinking right now. It could change in a week, or in two years, and it definitely was different than three years ago. So, you’re not setting this in stone, it’s just a check-in of what do you want and what do you need in your life? And if you’re coupled up, then your partner does that, the exercise as well, and then you set a safe environment for you to go over the topics. When I’m working with couples through this exercise, we do lots of practicing of how to respond in an affirmative way, how to monitor your face so that you don’t shut down your partner, and how to emotionally regulate so that you don’t feel hurt by your partner’s reactions, if there’s anything that surprises you. And to set the tone that this is fun, this is really a beautiful thing and it’s always exciting to me when I meet somebody, personally or professionally, who is interested in finding out what they want and what they don’t want. Because I know that that desire then changes to really expanding who they are as a sexual being and brings them closer to a much more fulfilling and meaningful long-term sexuality and sex life.
Katie (12:40):
I love this. We’re gonna have to head into a quick commercial break but when we come back I want to ask you a little bit about what happens when your partner wants something that’s a yuck for you? And then I also want to dive into how do we increasingly have agency in our sex and intimate life? We’ll be back after this quick break.
[Ad break]
Katie (14:24):
Juliana, we headed into the break and you shared your four-quadrant exercise which is a wonderful device to really identify maybe what you’re into and what you’re not into, and then compare it with your partner. I’m assuming that if you’re both excited about the same things, you’re on the right track. What happens when there is a yuck that might be your partner’s yum? When there is that mismatch there with desire and interest about a particular sex act?
Juliana (14:51):
Yes, that’s such a great question, and it’s one of the reasons why couples don’t even get into this topic because they’re afraid of how to navigate it. So, what you want to do is you check in with yourself when you have something vulnerable to share. And if you know that this is something that is probably going to be a difference between the two of you, then you name it. And instead of this being something that’s terrifying it’s like, here really is a place where we can learn and grow and I know we can do this together—that’s the attitude both of you need to have, even if you need to use those words, that’s powerful too. And put your, it’s helpful to put your partner on alert too, hey, this is something vulnerable and this is something I want us both to be on alert for. And looking at this as in like, so this is a difference, but this isn’t the worst thing in the world and we are gonna have to compromise on this. If there’s a definite difference then someone’s needs are not gonna be met. And is it a need or is it a want? That makes a difference too. And then we just negotiate. What does this mean? No one should be coerced into doing something that they don’t want to do. So, that’s the number one rule. And after that, it’s is there wiggle room, to perhaps do some research? For instance, if I have a couple, one person is really interested in something called shibari which is the Japanese art of tying ropes and silks. They’re like, this sounds great and their partner is like, “What the what? [Katie laughs] I Googled that and no.” That’s not how we want to respond but it’s okay if that’s a natural reaction. And if you do say something like that, then like, okay let me back up and say, huh, okay, I’d like to learn more about that. Let me ask questions like, so, “What feels interesting for you about this?” And that’s different than, “What? You are a freak.”
Katie (16:55):
Yeah, right. Like shutting it down. Because I love your suggestion of using, of embracing the word, “Huh.” Like, “Huh tell me more about that.” Because it buys you some room to think about it. And you might learn something that makes it feel more interesting or palatable to you, or probably provides the avenue to have the negotiation. Maybe that one thing is not for you, but something that’s similar to it might be.
Juliana (17:23):
Yes, and I’ll give you a specific example since I started with shibari. I was working with a couple and they gave me permission to share this. He really wanted to try this, he thought it looked so cool, he thought it was really interesting, and he had a background of tying knots as a sailor. So, she saw it, she looked it up. She had a background and experience of having sexual trauma. So, to her, looking at the knots, being tied up and feeling constrained, looked scary and it made her look at him like he was terrible for wanting to do this to her. So, this was a no, and this was really disappointing and when we got to it, it was like, is this a need or is this a want? He said, “It’s a want, but I am concerned that she thinks I am being oppressive by wanting to do this.”
So, as we got further into the discussion what he was saying to her was actually, “What I’ve learned about this community, what I’ve learned about this is that there’s so much trust involved. And actually what I’d love to do is have this experience that you can trust me so fully that we can have this experience together.” And for her, and again, that may not land for some people, but for her that actually did land. So, they together started doing research. She did some on her own and then they started looking at things together and she decided that she was okay with some of it. So, she had some clear noes, of, “It’s not going to go this far, but I’m okay with trying this.” And they started using the language that he was speaking of, of trust, and throughout that process, it really grew to be something that she actually ended up wanting more than he did. He wanted to try it a couple of times and then he was done, but she was like, actually I love this experience of opening up to you and it felt like a healing process to have a man that she did trust and love actually speaking and whispering to her things of safety. Again, this may not land for some people but for them what was important about it was, it was such a hard no for her, and she did hold silent judgment about him for wanting this. She shut him down completely and he felt bad about himself and didn’t want to ask for other things and wasn’t so open to her either in reciprocity. But because they were able to open up to some curiosity and some maybes in their yucks and yums, it actually opened up. And they found new places.
Katie (19:37):
That’s such a beautiful outcome. I love the fact that they were able to have a conversation because I’m sure that the open lines of communication between sex partners is probably the number one thing that makes your sex life work and hum. But one of the things I wanted to ask you about was what you had said on that quadrant exercise, which is genius, and you just shared something with me that I’ve never heard of which is this Japanese practice. You said, come up with 40 different types of sex acts. I’m sitting here thinking like, my inner voice is like, “Oh my gosh. [both laugh] Your sex life is more vanilla than you think it is.” I’m like, “40?” So, for somebody who’s having this reaction like me being like, “Huh, I’ve got like 5.” Where would you recommend that they start to explore? Because you said at the beginning that one of the things that people come to you for is to maybe light a spark in their own selves, beyond just a partner. So, if you’re looking to learn more about what’s available with intimate life and sort of sex life, where would you recommend? Is it sex toys? is it therapy? Is it just hitting the Google? Where can we learn more if we are interested in exploring this in this phase in our life?
Juliana (20:53):
Yeah, we, fortunately, live in an era where we have more access to education like this but I still think we are owed an apology for not being properly sex educated. So, where do you go? You go where it feels the most natural. For a lot of people, it is Google. You start researching articles. And there are a lot of quality articles out there that give you hints on what you can even try and people giving their firsthand accounts of what things felt like for them or details of different communities.
Then there are chat rooms, so let’s say you find a particular sex act or thing that you’re interested in. You can Google that and you can find communities talking about it, discussion boards, it’ll give you some articles. And then you have to have your own discernment. Does this fit for you? Just because it’s a yum for somebody, it doesn’t mean it’s a yum for you. But I don’t think it’s harmful to cull the information and to see, “Okay, the more I know, the more educated I am, I can feel more comfortable and I can jump into vulnerability in this.”
I think sex toys are a beautiful way to get to know how your body works and how it receives pleasure. There are so many toys out there and you want to see what your body likes, and also think about sex toys that aren’t just for your genitals; that there are other parts to your body that you may enjoy either putting those sex toys on or doing sex toys that pay attention to other parts as well. Definitely, therapy can make a big difference. I have this thing called a sex plan that I run people through, singles and couples. Really the premise for the sex plan is that things aren’t broken. I never see anyone as broken. What we do is we need to plan for having our sexuality be a priority in our life, just like we do our financial planning, just like we do our retirement or our nutrition. And having that be the way that you look at this, you have to prioritize who you are as a sexual being in order to start having any of that information make sense to you. Otherwise, you’re just kind of doing a buffet and not hitting in what really we’re looking for in a holistic way. So, do the research.
Katie (23:10):
Do the research and make the plan. But for midlife women, we have things that can sort of get in the way sometimes. We’re experiencing body changes, we have perimenopause, menopause which affect your hormones, your mood, your mindset, your relationships. We might have changes to our body with weight gain, we might have gone through different kinds of, there’s breast cancer, there are hysterectomies. Women are dealing with changing bodies. How do you work with clients who might be thinking to themselves, "I just don’t feel sexy, or I’m afraid I’m not sexy." What would you say to them? And what is some coaching?
Juliana (23:49):
And society tells me I’m not sexy.
Katie (23:51):
That’s true. [laughs]
Juliana (23:52):
All the way around, everywhere we turn.
Katie (23:55):
Pop culture. Yes, I know, exactly. You go from being this desirable babe in your youth to less of a babe. And pop culture wants you to feel bad about yourself and attempts to diminish you. How do you help women with shifting their mindset because your brain is your biggest sex organ?
Juliana (24:13):
Mhm. So, you know, you’ve heard the expression that what happens inside the bedroom happens outside the bedroom. It’s such a powerful phrase that is the embodiment of my work as well.
Katie (24:24):
Wait, can you say that phrase again Juliana? Because I missed it.
Juliana (24:28):
Yes, what happens inside the bedroom happens outside the bedroom, and vice versa. So, that is the foundation of a lot of my work. So, when people come to me with their challenges, we look at where it’s not challenged. So, when we’re talking about feeling sexy in our life, it’s pretty similar to desire. I like to step back and say, what does sexy even mean? What does that mean to you? Not what the newspaper says, magazines, media. Not what it used to feel like for you. But right now, what does sexy mean? And more often than not, what I hear from women is, “I am so frustrated because I actually feel better about myself now, internally, I feel more in charge of myself, I have more agency, I have more freedom in my life, yet the outside isn’t matching that.” Or, “I do feel comfortable in my body, but the world doesn’t see that in the same way and the world doesn’t want me to embody my sexiness and my confidence in the same way and what do I do about that dissonance?”
For me where we begin is, okay, so then let’s go back to defining sexy for yourself and I love calling it like, let’s find your sexy. And that could be something that is cerebral that is who you are intellectually, that you’re feeling really good in your career, or really good in the family that you have formed. And what are the characteristics of that? So, sexy doesn’t mean that you have to have this great bra set, although that may be a part of it, it can be that you just feel really comfortable in your skin and that feels amazing to you. So, what does that feel like, when you are feeling comfortable in your skin? What is that humming that you have inside of you? And we really fine-tune those feelings in our body and then we translate that to finding that in your body, for yourself. So, looking at your self-pleasure practice and looking at what do I like? What do I like about my body? What feels good? And it’s not just feeling good on your genitals, although that’s a really important part of it. But looking at, what feels good on my breasts, on my hair? I love helping people find these different kinds of touches and I extract this from a really basic tantric exercise. Which is, there are four ways to look at touch in your life. And so we look at the different rhythms and look at the different pressure that you put on it. And again, not just on your genitals but everywhere. And when you can activate pleasure in your life and joy in your life, then that really also leads to sexy and feeling sexy.
Now, what can we do about not feeling great? About the aging that’s happening in our body? I think part of it is, I don’t love radical body acceptance. I think that can actually feel harmful to some. That they want to feel so radically great about their body but they don’t get there so then they feel worse about it, I can’t even do that. I think what we do is we practice body compassion.
Katie (27:16):
And what does body compassion look like to you?
Juliana (27:19):
Studies have shown that that’s actually the number one thing to change the way that you feel about your body. And body compassion is okay, so I don’t love this part of myself. Let’s talk about this, let me accept it. Let me send it love, and let me see where this continues in my body and is there a pathway in my thought process about it. So, for instance, someone doesn’t love their C-section scar, that just feels awful to them. They’re embarrassed to have a new lover, they’re divorced and a new lover is going to see this about them, what are they gonna think, that has a scar to it? Can we have compassion for this part of our body? Can we look at the beauty of this, bringing a child into the world? Can we look at this being a road map to, “I’ve been through something hard and beautiful and what does that mean to me? And how can I reassess my relationship with that?” And then again, that example is different for every person. But we send it love, we reframe it, and we allow ourselves to have grieved, that’s a normal part of it, and we allow ourselves to not have this perfect acceptance of it, but we have compassion for how it got to this place and not having it to be this perfect thing in our life.
Katie (28:43):
And so, you alluded to doing this with a new partner and you could obviously do it with your existing partner. By the way, you should be doing this with yourself, to begin with. We should all feel compassion and love and respect for our bodies. I love that this is a suggestion even if your sex life is humming along, this is for women who are going through a divorce, almost 50% of marriages end in divorce, partners die as we age, and we look to embrace potentially new sex partners; how do you support a woman as she’s considering this and maybe finding it to be something fearful?
Juliana (29:23):
To partner up after divorce or after the loss of a partner?
Katie (29:25):
Yes, exactly. How would you, sort of, put some air under their wings and let them know that this is something that they can do and that they should be excited about embracing? What are some of the practicalities of just getting back out there?
Juliana (29:40):
So, you have to allow yourself to grieve at the pace that— ‘Cause both of those involve a grieving and a loss. So, let yourself grieve. For some people, they have been grieving the end of their marriage for years, and years, and years so when the marriage and the divorce actually happens, they really are ready to get into dating. So, people ask me all the time, when is the right time to start dating? There is no right time, it’s super individual. And then other people, they haven’t grieved and they haven’t done any of the self-work of re-identifying who they are so, they need more time after divorce. So, I say, you have to really learn how to drown out the advice that you are given because you are gonna get heaped on lots of advice about how you should do things and how you shouldn’t do things. And it’s really about giving yourself space to reclaim who you are, re-identifying, and then really finding your agency in that process.
I love also, I recommend this to a lot of people, to find someone who is younger than you. And younger can be, they’ve been in the dating world a long time or are pretty adept at dating apps and how the world of dating operates at this time, that they can really get you up to speed about what’s common, what isn’t common, what are warning signs and what is just a normal way of doing it. Because if it’s been a while since you’ve dated, or you’ve never been on dating apps, that in and of itself can be really overwhelming. And then having somebody that’s further down the line than you, someone that’s been dating, that’s been divorced a while and can really show you that there is hope, there is beauty, and that they have been on the other side of this and reclaiming who they are on their own terms. I think both are really important for you.
And then to have fun. This is a time to do things that perhaps you couldn’t have done with a partner that you had. To try new parts of you, and see again, kinda we’re talking about the sex acts with the yucks and yums, look at the yucks and yums in life too. And also, have people in your life that you can talk about what the dating experience is like and get a buddy system of this is what’s happening, this is what isn’t happening, who are people who are single. Because it can be really difficult if you’re out in the dating world after loss or divorce to talk to people that just don’t get it because they haven’t been dating in a long time. So, it’s helpful to find other people who can have the same verbiage or have had the same experiences that you have had.
Katie (32:10):
Such smart advice to find somebody who’s young and sort of, facile and is adept at dating apps to get you up to speed. But I love this notion of connecting with somebody who’s made it through this transition and is thriving in life. And I want to recommend for any listener right now who is, you know, divorcing, or just got divorced, or is thinking about getting divorced, is thinking about how am I gonna re-enter the dating pool? I had a fabulous guest on my show, her name is Laura Friedman Williams, she wrote the memoir Available: A Memoir of Sex and Dating After a Marriage Ends. And Laura chronicles her re-entry into dating and sex after her almost 30-year marriage ended in a very upsetting and sort of chaotic fashion. And she really re-embraced her sexuality, it’s a wonderful and inspiring read. So, if you don’t have somebody in your personal life, I would recommend using this book as a bit of a mentor.
Juliana, I want to ask you a little bit about this notion of, you know, turning to people who are older and sort of experienced and to see— I’m curious about the age range of your clients. Are people coming in midlife? Are people coming in their sixties and seventies? I know from having another guest on this show who got married at the age of 73, that it’s like, never too late, never too old. But for somebody who is sitting here thinking I’m too old for all of this, what is your response?
Juliana (33:35):
Yes, you are not too old and that’s one of the things that, exciting for me. I always recommend that people get an aging mentor and just a woman mentor. Someone who is, I had this advice given to me when I was about 12 years of age, of a woman that’s down the street that says, you should always be friends of different ages, people older than you and people younger than you. And that has been such beautiful advice for me and I have always kept that in my life and that’s the same no matter what age you are. You want to have people that are ahead of you and people that are behind you. I don’t mean below you, but behind you in the age.
Katie (34:16):
Right. Chronological age. [laughs]
Juliana (34:18):
Yes, chronological, yes. So, what I do, I do work with women in their sixties and seventies and frankly, it’s one of my favorite ages to work with. There’s just so much room for self-exploration and there’s so much more freedom even though we’re not taught that. Which again is the problem and why I say that people should have an aging mentor, because you need to hear the wisdom that is waiting for you, and you need to hear what women are thinking about and what they have learned, and how they have grown into this place of freedom and looking for that kind of camaraderie and that companionship later in life and that is purposeful.
One of my mentors was Betty Dodson and she died last year at 91 what a value she was, on so many levels, in my life but one of the best ones is that she talked a lot about having an active sex life, that that was really important to her, she talked really frankly about how her body was aging and what that felt like. She even offered up, for me and others to be able to see what her body looked like, that she wished she had seen how a vulva aged. And she was like, "If everybody wants to see it, I’m happy to show it.” [Katie laughs] And I just thought it’s such a beautiful gift because we don’t live around each other, we don’t live in villages like we used to, so unless we have people close to us, we don’t even see the basics of how we’re aging.
Katie (35:43):
Oh my gosh. Juliana, I have to laugh right now because if anyone grew up in New York City and remembers Loehmann’s discount shopping place. My mom dragged me to Loehmann’s so many times and there was definitely a lot of seeing aging bodies, ‘cause these big communal dressing rooms. And I remember being a young girl and looking around and being like,”Woah, wow, is this in my future." So, Loehmann’s clothes. We don’t have it available to us anymore.
But I adore this notion of an aging mentor. Because I feel like we need to just, not just for sex but in every aspect of our lives, we need to see women whose careers are going or being reinvented. Dr. Helen Fisher, who I mentioned earlier who came on my show, is Match.com's Chief Science Advisor, she is an anthropologist, she’s with the Kinsey Institute, she is one of the nation’s leading experts in sex, and she got married at the age of 73.
Juliana (36:41):
Love it.
Katie (36:41):
And it is so inspiring and she shared with us on the episode that people can remain in love. She’s actually put long-time couples in MRIs and watched their brain regions light up with desire for their long-term partner. And that’s something that pop culture also does not get right. They get midlife wrong, but they get that wrong as well. You can remain attracted to people that you’re in a committed relationship with, especially if you’re using some of the tools that you just outlined. This conversation, this sense of novelty, this sense of curiosity. We lead different lives than we did in our twenties, thirties, and forties, why shouldn’t our sex lives look a little bit different?
Juliana (37:28):
Agreed.
Katie(37:28):
I adore everything that you’ve just shared right now. So, our time is coming to an end, I do want to dive into a speed round because I could talk to you all day long about this. I want to cover some quick ground. The speed round is a quick one or two-word answer that shares a little bit more with our viewers. So, I think I know the answer to this one but I want to ask it anyhow. Sex therapy is a yes or no for just your average person. Not even somebody struggling, but sex therapy as a way to explore?
Juliana (37:58):
It’s a yes.
Katie (37:59):
Okay.
Juliana (38:00):
It’s a hell yes.
Katie (38:01):
It’s a hell yes! It’s like, put this, click stop, hit your Google, find your sex therapist, and get going.
Juliana (38:09):
That’s right.
Katie (38:10):
All right, sexual wellness book or podcast that you recommend for more?
Juliana (38:16):
I love the book Come As Your Are.
Katie (38:20):
Okay, Come As You Are, that’s going in the show notes. For listeners who are thinking, what’s a show note? You’ll find a show note and a complete transcript and all the links to the things that we talk about over at acertainagepod.com. Okay, best vibrator?
Juliana (38:36):
The Magic Wand, Hitachi Magic Wand.
Katie (38:39):
Okay, best sex toy for beginners?
Juliana (38:42):
Hmm… There is a vibrator through LELO that I can’t think of the name of it but I can give it to you afterward to put in the show notes.
Katie (38:54):
Great.
Juliana (38:55):
But it’s… Oh, you know what, I’m gonna change this. I’m gonna say a Barbell by Dodson and Ross.
Katie (39:03):
And what’s a Barbell? [laughs]
Juliana (39:05):
Yes, a Barbell is, yes, yes doesn’t that sound interesting? I get so used to the words that I use that I forget that…
Katie (39:14):
Tell us, tell us.
Juliana (39:15):
So, the barbell, it’s heavier stainless steel that has two different size balls at the end of it that you— It’s like a dildo but really what it does is it provides pleasure for penetration, but it also helps increase your PC muscle strength and it doesn’t look scary, it’s really a beautiful entry point. So, the Magic Wand and the Barbell together is my favorite entry for the first time you’re looking at a sex toy.
Katie (39:43):
Fabulous. And for people who have a drawer full of sex toys and are looking for upgrades, what’s a sex toy brand or company that has a wide range of options for people who are curious and want more?
Juliana (39:58):
LELO.
Katie (39:59):
LELO, how do you spell LELO?
Juliana (40:02):
L-E-L-O
Katie (40:03):
L-E-L-O okay everyone, go hit that Lelo.com. Juliana, as I age, this is the last one, as I age, I feel _____.
Juliana (40:14):
Excited.
Katie (40:15):
Excited. That is the perfect note to end on. Me too. This has been a total blast, I have learned so much. I’m upgrading everything in my life and I love everything that you shared. It will all be in the show notes. But before we say goodbye, how can our listeners find you and keep following your work?
Juliana (40:33):
Oh great. So, on all social media platforms I’m @drjulianahauser, and then my website is dr-julianna.com.
Katie (40:44):
Fantastic. This wraps A Certain Age, a show for women who are aging without apology. Join me next Monday when sexual health and menopause specialist, nurse Jackie Giannelli helps us navigate biggies like low libido, painful sex, and common sexual dysfunctions.
Before we say goodbye, I have a favor to ask. Please take a minute to rate or review A Certain Age over on Apple podcasts or wherever you listen. This is so easy to do. Just find A Certain Age on your podcast app, scroll down to the bottom, and tap on the stars to rate, or leave a written review. Both matter because reviews and ratings help the show grow.
Special thanks to Michael Mancini who composed and produced our theme music. See you next time and until then: age boldly, beauties.