Beyond Hot Flashes: The Long-Term Risks of Menopause with Donna Klassen of Let’s Talk Menopause
Show Snapshot:
Menopause is waaay more than hot flashes.
Do you know all the long-term health risks of menopause?
Menopause advocate Donna Klassen of the nonprofit Let’s Talk Menopause shares what women need to know for the long haul – think osteoporosis, heart disease, depression, and Genitourinary Syndrome of Menopause (GSM), which includes vaginal, sexual, and urinary impacts.
We cover what to ask your doctor, the intersection of menopause and mental health (hello hormonal rollercoaster), plus the upside—yes, there’s an upside!—to the ‘pause.
In This Episode We Cover:
Surprise! The number of women in the U.S. in peri- and menopause is a whopping 75 million.
How an estrogen-positive breast cancer diagnosis put Donna into surgical menopause.
The window of opportunity to reset midlife health.
More than hot flashes — the long-term health impacts of menopause.
Its not in your head — the link between menopause, mental health and depression and anxiety.
Bone up on menopause and osteoporosis.
Listen up! GSM (genital-urinary syndrome of menopauses) require treatment and won’t go away on their own.
Hot flashes, toxic rage, and a simple tool to improve mood during a hormonal roller coaster.
Menopause at work—what to know.
Quotable:
We're starting to call it a window of opportunity, like a reset for your health in midlife. Women are often focused on so many other people. We don't necessarily look at ourselves. Take time to look at our own health, the long-term health effects of menopause and midlife—osteoporosis...bone health, your heart. One in two women dies of heart disease, heart attacks, and heart-related illnesses. And your brain, the third. Two out of three women are diagnosed with Alzheimer’s.
Transcript:
Katie Fogarty [0:27]:
Welcome to A Certain Age, a show for women who are unafraid to age out loud. Want to hear some mind-blowing stats? 75 million women are in perimenopause, menopause, or post-menopause in the US, with 6,000 more reaching menopause every day. Add in the rest of the globe, and we are talking about a tsunami of hot flashes, yet the cultural conversation around menopause is still lacking, often portrayed as a comedic punchline, and shockingly, many doctors have very little menopause training with which to guide and counsel women. My guest today is on a mission to change all that.
Donna Klassen is a cofounder and CEO of the menopause advocacy nonprofit, Let’s Talk Menopause. A licensed clinical social worker with more than 30 years of experience in women’s health and mental health counseling, Donna’s personal experience with the challenges of menopause and the lack of medical guidance she experienced put her into action to change the conversation around menopause women get the information they need and the healthcare they deserve. Welcome, Donna.
Donna Klassen [1:35]:
Thank you. Thank you for having me.
Katie [1:37]:
I’m excited. This show is going to be airing in October, which is National Menopause Month. Menopause and perimenopause deserve way more than a month since it goes on for many people for years. I know that Let’s Talk Menopause and your founding of this group is rooted in a personal experience. Can we open by having you share your story?
Donna [2:01]:
Sure. When I was 52, so about three or four years ago, I was diagnosed with estrogen positive breast cancer. I was already having perimenopausal symptoms, symptoms of irritability and joint pain, but I was still getting my period regularly. When I was going for testing for my mastectomy, they found two large cysts on my ovaries, and they were worrisome, so they took them out and I went into surgical menopause. And then after all of my treatments, part of the treatment is also going on something called Anastrozole, which basically blocks all of your estrogen. So, basically my estrogen went down very rapidly in about a three- or four-month period of time and then I was drowning in symptoms.
I was actually working for a hospital-based, partial hospital program for postpartum women experiencing depression and anxiety and I started having lots of forgetfulness, tearfulness, starving, which is a very difficult symptom, I had difficulty word finding, I was fatigued, and I was incredibly irritable. When I went for some of my hospital visits or post hospital visits, the doctors were basically like, “Okay, that’s it. You’re done.” And no one told me what was going to happen, especially around surgical menopause.
I was lucky enough to be able to advocate for myself and have access to resources and knowing that I was not myself, so I was able to get treatment and I was able to get the support that I needed. But also knowing that my situation... I’m not alone in this and women need better access to resources, they need better education prior to experiencing symptoms, and they need to know what to expect, just like you know what to expect before your period or before pregnancy, you need to know what to expect before menopause.
Katie [3:57]:
Yeah, absolutely. I’m so sorry to hear about that, it must have been a very challenging situation to be struggling with the health effects of a very scary cancer diagnosis and treatment, and then to be upended by having this wave of symptoms that surrounded you. You’re fortunate that you were able to advocate for yourself and get the help that you needed. And the rest of us are benefitting because you have created an organization that is working to make sure that women understand the different symptoms of menopause, the long-term effects of menopause, and mental health.
We cover a lot of the irks and symptoms of menopause on this show, I’ve had gynecologists come on to talk about things like dry vagina and painful sex and night sweats and hot flashes, some of these symptoms that really come on and catch women by surprise when they occur. Some of them go away, like night sweats and hot flashes eventually abate; things like dry vagina goes on forever, there are long term health risks. I would love if you could do a little stage setting for our audience and talk about some of the long-term health risks that menopause brings because I think that is somewhat surprising to women, that it’s not just a hot flash, that there are things they need to pay attention to for the rest of their lives.
Donna [5:25]:
Yes, and we’re actually starting to call it a window of opportunity, a reset for your health in midlife. Women are often focused on so many other people and we’re often sandwiched in between taking care of our children if we have children, taking care of our parents if we have parents that are older, but we don’t necessarily look at ourselves. And so, this is actually a very good time to look at our own health.
The long-term health effects from menopause in midlife are osteoporosis, so bone health; your heart, so one in two women die of heart disease, heart attacks and other heart-related illnesses; and your brain is a third, the cognitive issues, Alzheimer’s. Two out of three women are actually diagnosed with Alzheimer’s, so out of every three, one is a man and two are women.
Katie [6:20]:
We don’t like those stats.
Donna [6:22]:
We do not like that, we do not like that.
Katie [6:24]:
When you say window of opportunity, is that like in terms of a time? Do we need to be in action during a particular time of menopause to work against some of these long-term health risks? Does the window close? What do you mean in terms of timing?
Donna [6:41]:
I would say that really the timing is different for everyone, but I would say that in your forties, mid-forties, late forties, that’s a time to really go to a doctor and talk to them about menopause and what to expect, go to a provider that is experienced with menopause, there are NAMS certified, North American Menopause Society, certified providers that you can find to make sure that that provider knows about menopause. And there is a bit of a window, for bone loss for example, you lose a lot of your bone mass in those first three years after your last period. So, we know menopause is defined as one year after your last period, so during those few years is when you have the most bone loss.
Katie [7:26]:
Yeah, so it’s really critical to get in action. One of the things I’ve noticed about spending time on your website, LetsTalkMenopause.org, is that you have a symptoms checklist that you can print off, you can check your symptoms, and you can take this to your healthcare provider, which I think is such a useful tool because you know, we often get to the doctor and we forget to check every box and raise every concern with them. So, I love that you’ve made it easy. It’s fantastic.
And your website has a lot of great information on each one of these areas that we’ve talked about, some of the physical symptoms – heart health, osteoporosis, mental health. I have been recording this podcast for two years, I’ve talked to number of medical experts, and I feel like I’ve learned a lot more, but I am still surprised by some of the information that I learned on your website. I think many of my listeners probably know that heart disease is the number one cause of death for women in America, but I was surprised to learn that when you go into menopause at a younger age, like at 45 years or younger like you did maybe when you go into surgical menopause if you’re somebody who has had a surgery that put you into that surgical menopause, you have more cardiovascular health issues later in life than for women whose menopause begins closer to 51. What else do we need to be paying attention to in terms of heart health and menopause?
Donna [8:51]:
Well, I think that that’s exactly right. I think that women who reach, go into premature ovarian insufficiency or earlier menopause need to really see somebody. And now the recommendation from the North American Menopause Society is all of those women should go on hormone therapy at least until they reach the age of 51, 52. And I don’t think that people know that.
Katie [9:15]:
Okay, that’s important.
Donna [9:17]:
Yeah, it is very. They actually, NAMS just came out with new guidelines around that. And I think in terms of heart disease, I think it’s a matter of going to a cardiologist and getting checked, I don’t think we do that so much. Again, we are so used to taking care of other people and making doctor’s appointments for others that we don’t necessarily do it for ourselves. And when I was talking before about the reset, I think that is a time where we can do things like exercise more. Find an exercise that you like, I know everyone talks about having to go exercise, but find something that works for you. Also, go through your family history because I think that’s also really important. Who had osteoporosis? Who had heart disease? And look at those risk factors and try to figure out what lifestyle changes you can make, what medications you can take, what can you do to offset some of those things?
I also want to get back to the long-term health risks around the GSM symptoms. So, GSM is the genitourinary syndrome of menopause, those are all the urinary and vaginal issues in menopause. We actually include that as a long-term health risk because unlike some of the other symptoms that may dissipate when you’re post menopause, like hot flashes last somewhere between 7 to 10 years, although some people have it longer, but the GSM symptoms, without treatment, never get better. In fact, they get chronically worse.
Katie [10:45]:
Yes, I definitely want to explore that. We’re headed into a quick break, but when we come back, we’re going to be talking about GSM symptoms.
[Ad Break]
Katie [11:51]:
Donna, we’re back from our break, you were sharing about GSM and the sort of ongoing symptoms that can really impact women’s health throughout their lifetime. I actually was in a networking event with a bunch of women at one point, we were talking about menopause symptoms and one woman said, "Well, I’ve already gone through menopause and hot flashes are over for me, so I’m fine.” And all I could think was, “Your vagina is going to be dry forever.” [Donna laughs]
I have had so many conversations on this show about the loss of estrogen, and the impact that it has on your vaginal lining, which impacts things like painful sex and intimacy issues, but it also adds up to things like a greater risk of urinary tract infections and potential fissures in your vaginal walls which can cause infection and cause hospitalization. I think that not enough women understand that. I hope the listeners on this show have really learned that that’s something they need to be paying attention to, that you can be using things like hormone replacement therapy, or perhaps non-estrogen vaginal creams if you don’t want to use something with estrogen. There are options that are out there, and you really need to talk about it with your healthcare provider. What is it that you want women to know about GSM and how to treat it and what they should be paying attention to?
Donna [13:13]:
I think you just said it. But basically, it doesn’t get better, it only gets worse, or can only get worse, I don’t want to scare people. Estrogen is needed, it provides moisture, it provides liquid, it provides the thickness of the vaginal wall, which is why we get triple more UTIs as we get older. I can’t tell you how many people I say to them, “How many women do you know over the age of 50 who have UTIs?” And they’re like, “Oh my gosh, everybody.” And UTIs are deadly, and they affect quality of life, they can affect your memory, they can affect so many different things.
Katie [13:55]:
We do not need more things affecting our memory. Let me just say that, okay? [both laugh]
Donna [14:01]:
Exactly. So, I would say that there are treatments and that you don’t just have to suffer. We did a menopause talk this past week with two fantastic doctors from Mayo Clinic, and we went over the new NAMS guidelines. NAMS, again, is the North American Menopause Society and they make recommendations to providers and not enough people actually have access to the information that they’re sending out. One of the things that they said is that vaginal estrogen, so that’s localized estrogen, is the treatment that works for GSM, these vaginal and urinary symptoms.
Katie [14:38]:
That’s great to know, that’s great to know, because I’ve been using that, and I’m delighted to know that it works.
Donna [14:45]:
Mm-hm, it works and it’s safe. And so, unfortunately, there is a black box warning on vaginal estrogen when there shouldn’t be. That is because they sort of, looped it together with hormone replacement therapy and so there’s no distinguishing features to it, I guess not features, but there’s nothing distinguishing it. So, there’s still a black box warning when there shouldn’t be. So, what the doctor said yesterday was to disregard that, that vaginal estrogen is a local estrogen, and it doesn’t have some of the same health risks that maybe, systemic hormone replacement therapy does.
Katie [15:27]:
It’s a great way of getting educated honestly is to follow your Instagram, to spend time on the LetsTalkMenopause.org website because you are sharing information that we’re not finding elsewhere. I personally am not following NAMS, although maybe now I feel like I should be, but I can simply follow you instead because you are giving us updates about the different findings, about the different ways that we can be managing and navigating these symptoms, the latest science behind recommendations. And it allows us, as women, to be a more educated consumer. I think everyone who is listening to this show has deeply researched a pair of black jeans, or we’ve really looked into a pair of shoes we want to buy, and we need to be doing the same kind of self-education about the questions that we’re going to our healthcare providers with. The more you know, the more you know.
Donna [16:19]:
That’s right. And that’s actually how we’re going to impact change. Because if everyone goes to their healthcare provider and says, “What do you know about menopause, how can you help me with these symptoms?” Then they’re going to actually be bound to find out more information. So, that’s actually how we can impact change.
Katie [16:35]:
Yeah, absolutely, I love that.
So, I want to switch gears for a minute because I know that a big part of your work and advocacy is around mental health and menopause. And you look at that in two different areas; you’re looking at how menopause effects our overall mental well-being because we outlined some of the challenges at the top of the show. There’s depression, there’s anxiety, there’s some brain fog, there are physical body changes which also impact how we feel about ourselves mentally. And you also look at menopause in the workplace because menopause is occurring during a woman’s professional prime.
I would love to talk a little bit about the mental component of menopause because I think it’s a really big one. Let’s talk a little bit about the roller coaster of hormones and our mental health. What is it that you’re seeing? What is the advice that you give women who might be struggling with the mental challenges of menopause?
Donna [17:32]:
Great question. And I kind of want to take a step back because I think it is really important when you talk about the different symptoms that there’s overlap and causation. Difficulty sleeping, which is maybe a physical symptom of menopause, can affect your mood.
Katie [17:51]:
Yes, totally.
Donna [17:52]:
There’s a lot of overlap, and we actually have this puzzle on our website that shows it. The other piece is that what we do know is that there are a few windows of vulnerability in a woman’s life around these intense hormonal fluctuations. The first one being the onset of your period, think adolescence. And also, the last week or two before your period, so the luteal phase of your period, and that’s also when there’s a lot of fluctuation in hormones, so your hormones are bouncing up and down; think of a mountain, it’s going up and down really fast.
The second window of vulnerability is during pregnancy and postpartum. So, we’ve heard a lot in the last 10 years or so about postpartum depression and anxiety, and that is also caused by these intense fluctuations in hormones. So, women during that period of time report anxiety and depression, like they’ve never experienced before, even if they do have a history of depression and anxiety.
Now what we know is that perimenopause, so that’s the 4 to 10 years prior to your last period, can also bring on these fluctuations in mood and mental health symptoms and that’s because, not only are you still getting your period where there’s hormone fluctuations, but then perimenopause is also causing these fluctuations. So, it’s sort of one thing on top of another. So, people don’t know that it’s not just menopause, which is that one year after, it’s the 4 to 10 years prior. And what we find during perimenopause is that the symptom of irritability and being quick to anger is number one.
Katie [19:33]:
Okay, this makes me actually feel better because long-term listeners to this show know that I have shared about my bouts of toxic rage that I went through a few years ago. And I was like, is it politics? Is it the pandemic? What is it? But I had volcanic fury, and I was like, what is going on? I realized that was my hot flash, I just had mountainous fury, and I feel better now, knowing. [laughs] Some of that has abated. I will say that I took steps I learned on this show, I practiced better sleep hygiene, I’ve done a number of episodes on getting good sleep, and I made lifestyle choices and changes that impacted my sleep and my mood, but it was frightening. And when I shared that I experienced toxic rage on this show, people reached out to me to say, "Hey, me too.” And I think that’s a big part of what you’re doing so well is having a conversation that makes women feel less alone.
Donna [20:34]:
Yes, and that actually helps people feel better. You are exactly right. So like, knowing that you’re not alone and not being so hard on yourself around it makes it better. Now, that being said, no one wants to condone being really mean to somebody else.
Katie [20:52]:
Yes, or weeping, because I had that too. That feeling of your eyes well up, and I just felt like I wanted to just break down weeping around things that wouldn’t normally have triggered me a few years earlier.
Donna [21:09]:
Yes, and that’s why we say, it’s during perimenopause that that happens. Again, knowing that something is a symptom is actually part of the treatment. Does that make sense?
Katie [21:21]:
I love that. Yes! Makes total sense.
Donna [21:23]:
So, it’s sort of like, “I’m having a symptom of menopause, I’m having a symptom of irritability,” versus, “Oh my god, I’m such a B-I-T-C-H.” [Katie laughs] You know what I mean?
Katie [21:33]:
Donna, you can say that this isn’t... we are grown.
Donna [21:36]:
Good, it’s a podcast. It’s not a... [both laugh]
Katie [21:38]:
You can say whatever you want. We are grown up, [Donna laughs] we get to choose our own words.
Donna [21:44]:
Yeah, so, like, instead of saying... As a therapist, I teach people labeling, and I really feel that labeling is one of the most important skills that somebody can have. So, for example, if you’re having an anxious thought, you label it. “I’m having an anxious thought that X, that this is going to happen.” It takes the anxiety outside of yourself a little bit instead of your body reacting to it as if it’s happening, right then and there. The same thing with the symptom of irritability, “I’m having a symptom of irritability.” You say that to yourself instead of saying, “Oh my god, I’m such a bitch, I’m such a horrible person,” which can really impact how you feel.
Katie [22:30]:
Yeah, it’s so powerful.
Donna [22:33]:
It’s really powerful, and I think it’s really important for people to know the symptoms and to be able to label them and get help for them.
Katie [22:40]:
Absolutely, because help is out there! What would you say to a woman who is listening right now who feels like, "I feel a little bit at the end of my rope, I’m having those bouts of toxic rage that Katie talked about, I’m having irritability. I want more control. Labeling is something I can take off for myself, it’s easy and free to do.” What would be a secondary step that you would encourage somebody to take? When should they be working with a therapist, talking to their medical caregiver? When should they be asking for more?
Donna [23:14]:
I think if it’s interfering with everyday life, they should talk to their medical provider, nurse practitioner, psychiatrist, therapist. I would encourage people to see a skills-based therapist, and what I mean by that is someone who does cognitive behavioral therapy or DBT, dialectical behavioral therapy, so more of a skills-based approach, and somebody who understands midlife. The other thing I will say is that small-dose antidepressants, and now, I’m not a prescriber, I’m a therapist, I’m a social worker, but low-dose antidepressants can help with a lot of the symptoms of perimenopause and menopause. And so, I encourage people to talk to their doctor and see if that works for them.
Katie [23:59]
Yeah, great advice.
Donna [24:00]:
Because it is something that the lack of estrogen... So, estrogen helps provide those feel-good hormones, the dopamine and the serotonin, and we lose those as we age. And if we think about people who are older, there’s a lot of anxiety in people that are older. Think about people who don’t change their routine. That’s because they’re anxious. [laughs] So, I just think there are reasons to feel good and try it. Try talking to your provider. Try it. It can help with a lot of different symptoms. As I said, some antidepressants also can help with hot flashes and some of the other symptoms including sleep.
Katie [24:44]:
Yeah, fantastic advice. Help is out there. Explore the different options, and look for a menopause practitioner because they do exist.
Menopause in the workplace is something that you also focus on. Again, I know that menopause happens during a woman’s professional prime, and I’ve been learning a lot more about the impact it has on our workplaces. Elektra Health has been a sponsor of the show in the past, they have done a fantastic study on women and work, and they found, really to me an astonishing number, that 20% of women surveyed thought about leaving the workplace due to menopause symptoms. This adds up to lower productivity, ballooning costs, and the exit of women out of the workplace, which we don’t want to see. You’re an advocacy organization. What can, and should workplaces be doing to support women during this period of transition?
Donna [25:45]:
So, that’s a very good question and I think we’re still trying to come up with our own ideas about this because it is a little complicated. We don’t want another thing that women are not hired for, like, “I’m not going to hire a midlife woman because she’s going to go through menopause.” So, that is something that we want to be mindful of. I know from my own experience I left the workforce in a different way, I went back to my private practice, and I started Let’s Talk Menopause, but it’s because I was overwhelmed, and I was tearful in meetings that I’d never been tearful in a meeting before in my life like that. So, I understand how it can impact work.
I do think the bottom line though is that if we actually do the changes that we talked about before, get more doctors trained, get people the healthcare they deserve, that we’re not going to necessarily need to be talking about this as much in the workplace, if they’re going to get the healthcare they deserve, they’re going to get the well trained provider, if women are going to know more and take control of their healthcare.
But I do think doing training, and that’s what we’re starting to do at Let’s Talk Menopause, doing training for work to let human resources know what happens, to give them the education in the workplace to understand that. I do think there can be something around hot flashes, I know that for myself, I was running group therapy meetings [laughs] with women, and all of a sudden, I would get this hot flash, and for listeners who have had hot flashes, you know what I’m talking about. I don’t know if you’ve ever had a hot flash, Katie, but it’s like something you’ve never experienced before when you first start having them. It’s like this flame that comes up in your body, and you start getting, I start getting really red and start sweating, and it kind of envelopes me, and it lasts for just like, you know, 10 to 15 seconds. But when it was first happening it was very uncomfortable, and I didn’t know what to do with it. What we do know actually is that labeling it and telling people what’s going on at work is helpful.
Katie [28:04]:
Yeah, absolutely. I’ve actually heard somebody say that. I had Tamsen Fadal on my podcast. Tamsen is a TV anchor. She’s a menopause advocate. She’s really wonderful. I think she actually sits on your board. She shared that she literally had to leave a TV broadcast and lay on the floor because she was so overcome with this very powerful hot flash and didn’t know about it, and she was saying that she learned that you can say to people, “Oh, I’m having a hot flash,” and then move on. And just you know, I thought that’s so genius. As you said, you label it, you simply declare it, you identify it, and move on. I think people are understanding, men, younger men, and women, that this is something that occurs, and if you just identify it and, you know, treat it as if it’s something normal, it probably allows you to recover from it a lot faster.
Donna [29:02]:
It does, it certainly does, and I think that’s an excellent point. I had met with somebody who is a researcher at Penn State, and she said I think they’re beginning to do some research on this, but these are their preliminary findings are that if you just say it and let it go, the people at work are more likely to be like, “Oh okay, no big deal.” But if you hide it, then people think, "Oh my gosh, what’s wrong with her.” Because then, in their head, they’re like, “Is something else going on? Is there more to this?” So, there is something about just saying it. And look, some people are really embarrassed, and that’s what we have to break through. It’s okay to say it, and I think that’s what we can do in the workplace. It’s okay to talk about it. It’s okay to say it. I happened to be a place where I was working with all women at the motherhood center, so I was able to say it, and the person who was my boss was going through menopause at the same time, and so we would stand in front of the fan together.
But I do think there is something to it, and this gets to the mental health component, too, when you were asking me before about what women can do. To explain what cognitive behavioral therapy, some of it is about acceptance, that’s a little bit CBT and DBT. But if you fight the hot flash, you’re going to make it worse, and I was doing that in the beginning. So, I’ll give you an example. I would have a hot flash, I would be home, and I would get irritated by the hot flash. I’d be like, "Augh, I’m having a hot flash, I’m so uncomfortable, I’m so annoyed,” and I would kind of make a scene at dinner, and my kids are like, “Oh god, mom, another hot flash?” [Katie laughs] They were just so annoyed with me, and I was like, "You guys don’t understand,” and I would kind of like, go away, and I’d go away and go outside. But my reaction there wasn’t helpful to me, right? Because I was kind of fighting it, I wasn’t kind of fighting it. I was fighting it because I was annoyed by them. But once I started just to like, “All right, I’m having a hot flash, I know it’s going to go away, just breathe through it and it’ll go.” That is CBT, just by not getting so irritated and annoyed by it and saying to myself, “I know what this is, I’m having a hot flash, and it’s going to pass.”
Katie [31:14]:
It’s so smart. I think that technique can be used in so many things. I use it for fear of public speaking or anxiety or when I’m worried about something. When you identify it like, "Oh, I’m anxious because I’m excited about this opportunity to be on stage, and I really want to connect with the audience.” To kind of reframe it and just saying... Or I’m up at night, I’m worried about something, but that’s because I’m paying attention and I care. I’ve given myself these opportunities to reframe things that otherwise feel uncomfortable. I’m not saying I can always do it because sometimes you’re just, you know, afraid or anxious, period. But you also recognize that it’s going to pass because that’s the beauty of getting to 53, which is how old I am now. I’ve seen this movie, I’ve starred in this anxiety movie, I’ve starred in this fear movie, [Donna laughs] I’ve starred in this toxic rage movie! And the movie always ends.
Donna [32:14]:
It does always end. My latest line to people actually is, “Of course you’re anxious.”
Katie [32:19]:
Right, why wouldn’t you be? Look around! Read the paper! [laughs]
Donna [32:23]:
That’s right. Kind of like normalizing it because, again, the fight is what keeps a lot of the symptoms. It really does.
Katie [32:30]:
Yes, that is such great advice. I love that we’ve had this conversation. We’re heading into our wrap-up and our speed round, but I’m going to encourage any listener here who works at an office, an organization, a company, a nonprofit, creative endeavor that has women who would benefit from or even male allies who would benefit from learning more about menopause, who would benefit from having menopause education in their work environment, I would encourage you to reach out to Donna, to reach out to LetsTalkMenopause.org and avail yourself of their training services so you can bring this education to your organization and make a difference for both yourself and the women that you work with.
Donna, we are moving into our speed round. I always close these conversations with this quick, high-energy close. It’s one-to-two-word answers to complete these sentences and allows us to learn a little bit more about you and your work before we have to wrap. Are you ready?
Donna [33:39]:
I am.
Katie [33:40]:
Okay, let’s do this. Launching Let’s Talk Menopause was _____.
Donna [33:46]:
Hard work.
Katie [33:46]:
Yes, I believe it. We’ve covered some of the downsides to menopause. What’s an upside?
Donna [33:53]:
You feel much more... You feel freer and more empowered.
Katie [33:57]:
Yes! I like it. I like it. Plus, you don’t have to buy tampons anymore. That’s my upside.
Donna [33:57]:
That’ 's right. Yes, that is true.
Katie [34:04]:
Menopause thought leader we should have on our radar: _____.
Donna [34:09]:
You already had Tamsen Fadal, I love her. Omisade, Omi.
Katie [34:15]:
Yes! Omi Burney-Scott, she’s wonderful. She was a guest as well. I’ll put both Tamsen and Omi’s episodes into the show notes, so if you’ve missed those, please tune in. These women are incredible.
What’s a lifestyle hacker tip for irksome symptoms we should all know about? And this is hard because there are so many symptoms, but what’s one thing that you think people should have on their radar?
Donna [34:38]:
I think what we talked about labeling.
Katie [34:40]:
Labeling, that’s a good one. Labeling, and I would also say maybe fans. I’m going to throw in blue light-blocking glasses for bedtime because that helped with my own sleep when I was experiencing sleep disruptions.
Donna [34:56]:
Can I go back to that other question?
Katie [34:58]:
Yes!
Donna [34:59]:
I think that Dr. Rachel Rubin should have on the show about GSM. She’s incredible. She’s a doctor in Washington DC.
Katie [35:07]:
Nice, I’m looking her up right after we get off. Favorite menopause product _____.
Donna [35:13]:
Mmm, so I have to say that I’m not a huge fan of menopause products.
Katie [35:19]:
Okay, that’s honest. [Donna laughs] We like honest answers.
Donna [35:24]:
Because I think that I worry that people are using products instead of getting some of the...
Katie [35:31]:
Getting to the root of the symptoms. All right, so maybe your favorite menopause recommendation would be to work with a doctor that is going to help you with science-backed solutions to your problems. Does that work?
Donna [35:45]:
Yes. Evidence-based, yup.
Katie [35:46]:
Evidence-based, we like that. How about your own favorite personal stress-busting technique?
Donna [35:55]:
Pilates.
Katie [35:56]:
Nice. All right, mental health is key, and Let’s Talk Menopause focuses on that. What’s an activity that always boosts your mood?
Donna [36:05]:
Gratefulness exercise. I never used to believe in it, and now I do. So, if you just do what you’re grateful for, say you’re in a bad mood, and you say, "What am I grateful for?” It actually sends good endorphins to your brain, and you feel better.
Katie [36:20]:
I practice this myself; I picked it up during the pandemic. Dr. Anita Sadaty who has been a guest on the show twice, recommended a gratitude practice and every single day before my feet touch the floor before I get out of bed, I think of three things that I’m grateful for, and I will say that usually, it’s that my husband has gotten up before me and has made the coffee. [both laugh]
Donna [36:41]:
It doesn’t matter what it is, just the act of being grateful. And again, I never used to believe this, and now I do. It really does work.
Katie [36:52]:
I love it. I love it, and I do it myself. Okay, finally, your one-word answer to complete this sentence: As I age, I feel _____.
Donna [37:00]:
It has to be two words.
Katie [37:01]:
Okay, that works.
Donna [37:02]:
Generally great.
Katie [37:03]:
Generally great. All right, again, an honest answer, we are here for it.
Donna [37:09]:
Can I say why I say generally?
Katie [37:11]:
Yeah, please.
Donna [37:12]:
Because no one feels great all the time, and when you say generally, it’s sort of like, you know, just generally, not always but...
Katie [37:21]:
Mostly good.
Donna [37:23]:
Mostly good.
Katie [37:24]:
We all have those days, but it’s mostly good, and that’s a great place to be. Thank you, Donna. This was terrific. It was educational it was informative. I’m really excited to bring Let’s Talk Menopause to our listeners. Before we say goodbye, how can A Certain Age listeners find out more about you and your work?
Donna [37:44]:
They can visit our website at LetsTalkMenopause.org, they can follow us on Facebook and Instagram and our handle is @LetsTalkMenopause, and on Twitter we’re at @LTMenopause. And if people want to email us, they can email us at hello@letstalkmenopause.org
Katie [38:01]:
Fantastic.
This wraps A Certain Age, a show for women who are aging without apology. A quick favor before we end the show. If you enjoy A Certain Age, if you learn something new, or simply love tuning in every week, please take time to write a review over on Apple Podcasts. Doing so is so easy; just grab your phone, open the podcast app, find A Certain Age, and scroll all the way down to the end.
And be sure to join me next week for a fun one. I’ll be sitting down with cookbook author Melina Hammer to talk about cozy fall meals and recipes for a nourished life.
Special thanks to Michael Mancini, who composed and produced our theme music. See you next time, and until then: age boldly, beauties.