How to be Happier, Calmer, Wiser + More Connected to Everyone You Love with Dr. Jenny Woo
Show Snapshot:
If you've ever snapped at your kids or partner and thought, "who is this person, and why can't I manage my own emotions better," this episode is built for that exact moment. Dr. Jenny Woo, Harvard-trained educator and emotional intelligence researcher, turned her own immigrant childhood and the happy chaos of raising three kids (including preemie twins) into Mind Brain Emotion, a company offering 11 EQ-focused card games now used in homes, schools, and workplaces across more than 50 countries.
In this episode:
Live prompts pulled directly from Dr. Woo's card decks, tackled in real time
How to get better at asking for help, especially during disorienting life transitions
Reframing childhood stories so they serve you better as an adult
Why aging gives you a more open-hearted ability to see yourself as a work in progress
About Dr. Jenny Woo: Dr. Jenny Woo is a Harvard-trained educator and emotional intelligence researcher who created the award-winning 52 Essential Conversations card deck, now used in homes, schools, and workplaces in more than 50 countries. Her work equips people with the emotional skills — resilience, self-awareness, communication — that research shows are declining across generations.
Show Links:
Follow Dr. Woo:
Quotable:
When we are confronted with different milestones like empty nesting, or needing to switch careers, or retirement, it is incredibly disorienting…. it's hard for us to be vulnerable and ask for help.
Transcript:
Dr. Jenny Woo (00:00)
I was actually recording a course when I had just found out a really great friend was diagnosed with a pretty progressive breast cancer. And so, walking back into recording that course, I was trying to keep it cool and do my thing. But in between takes, the producer actually just kind of joked around and said, “Quick, say something for your kids, as if they're watching this, right?” And so my mind just jumped to: what if this was happening to me?
Katie Fogarty (00:33)
Welcome to A Certain Age, a show for women who are unafraid to age out loud, beauties. A quick question for you: Do you believe in serendipity — the good luck of finding things unintentionally? I'm asking because today's wonderful guest is joining me due to a stroke of serendipity. I was scrolling through CNBC.com — something I never, ever do — when a headline caught my eye. It read, “A 42-year-old put $1,000 to launch her Amazon side hustle. Now it brings in $33,000 a week.” Of course I clicked on this, I was curious. And in a few moments I knew immediately that the woman featured in this article was somebody I wanted to have on the show. And here's why: serendipity — chance — may have introduced me to Dr. Jenny Woo, her company Mind Brain Emotion, and her work in emotional intelligence training. But what hooked me was the intentional, deliberate, considered approach she brings to building emotional resilience and equipping people of all ages with the strategies to help them be happier, calmer, and stronger in life.
Dr. Jenny Woo is a Harvard-trained educator, emotional intelligence researcher, a PhD, MBA entrepreneur, and mom of three. She started her career as a human capital consultant and executive coach. Now she is the founder of Mind Brain Emotion, which offers 11 different EQ-focused card games to give people of all ages relationship skills, critical thinking, and coping skills, and to help them build the deep, meaningful relationships that add up to a happy, satisfying life.
If you want a fresh toolbox for building relationships and resilience and managing negative emotions, if you love hearing scrappy, entrepreneurial stories, if you get inspiration from women who continuously reinvent their lives and professional work — stick around, this show is for you.
Welcome, Jenny. Thanks—
Dr. Jenny Woo (02:43)
—for having me, Katie. What an intro! And you've got to love the clickbait title, though — I'm so glad that we are here talking today.
Katie Fogarty (02:51)
I know — I definitely was clickbait; it got me to click. But when I did my deep dive, I was like, this is such a fascinating story, such a fascinating product, such a fascinating offering. And I really wanted to explore it with you. So I'm really excited. I gave a little taste in the intro to our listeners, but I would love for you to share how you came to build a business in emotional intelligence card games.
Dr. Jenny Woo (03:17)
Sure. So something that was not in that CNBC article is the fact that I am an immigrant, and I came over to the United States when I was about 10 years old. And interestingly, prior to that, I had spent about five years growing up without ever seeing my parents. So you can start to see the connections — just learning about emotions and coping, right from a personal standpoint as a child — and then being reunited in the United States with my parents after a long time, and trying to acclimate to a new culture and language, not knowing the alphabet. So that really kicked off my understanding of what's important in life and what you need to succeed.
Katie Fogarty (04:07)
Jenny, can I just ask you quickly — where did you grow up?
Dr. Jenny Woo (04:11)
Yeah, so I was born in China and came over to the United States, to Houston, Texas.
Katie Fogarty (04:16)
Okay, so that's a very, very big transition — that is a culture-shock transition. Incredible.
Dr. Jenny Woo (04:21)
Culture shock, yes. So then after high school, I did move over to Southern California. It's ironic — growing up in Asia, everybody looked like me, and then going to Texas, I was the only Chinese person in my ESL class, my language-learning class. And then going to Southern California, where there were people who looked like me, I guess. And I started my career, as you mentioned, Katie, in the business world — very much the common theme is around developing people, except I started with adults, as a human capital consultant. And again, that's where I realized these soft skills — the ones they really don't teach you at school — are so incredibly important once you get into the career field. And as a manager, it not only impacts how you might get that next promotion, but also the people around you — you know, when we talk about toxic workplaces, or even toxic households, that sense is so incredibly important. So, yeah — from developing adults in the workplace, and eventually I had kids of my own, and that was so eye-opening. That's another culture shock.
Katie Fogarty (05:47)
And talking about that, right? It's like — oh, you reinvent your life on a dime. It's really challenging.
Dr. Jenny Woo (05:55)
It really is. It's like all the stuff that you knew about yourself — you're seeing it unfold and really amplify into this emotional roller-coaster ride. That shock just never goes away. And that's when I looked within myself and realized: I thought I knew all about how to manage my emotions, how to be a good person, wife, leader, parent. But during those stressful moments — who am I? Who is this monster...
Katie Fogarty (06:34)
...shouting at her children or her husband? I know, it's super, super challenging. It's a roller coaster of emotions.
Dr. Jenny Woo (06:40)
Yeah. And that, coupled with — I had an older one, and then shortly after, a set of twins by surprise, and they were preemies. My daughter weighed less than three pounds. So managing a health crisis and all this uncertainty was really, really hard as a mother. And they were all under three, three of them, all in diapers. So talking about reinvention — this was more by necessity, in some sense, where I took a step back and really wanted to be there for them. And that really kick-started my interest in developing children — the “little adults.” And I started a new career as a school director at a network of Montessori schools — the same Montessori school my three kids ended up attending. And Katie, being the practical person that I am, I started it partially because I wanted free tuition — who wouldn't love that?
Katie Fogarty (07:49)
Believe me — I grew up in New York City. Free tuition, that's like extra cash in your pocket for sure.
Dr. Jenny Woo (07:57)
Exactly. And, yeah — I also really wanted to get the “juice,” the dirt, the tea, however you want to call it, on what it actually means to be a good mother. Because we hear about this selfless-mom notion, the “Pinterest mom” type, and I wanted to know — is this normal? Is this what everybody does? So that was also my intention. And again, that's also where I realized, working with children, teachers, and parents, that we all need these human skills, soft skills, emotional skills — whatever you want to call them. So, yeah — the connection of working across lifespans really encouraged me to look for ways to bridge this gap that I see across so many different generations and settings. And that's where, later on, when I was laid off from my job because of budget cuts, I wanted to reinvent again. So I went to the Harvard Graduate School of Education at the tender age of 35.
Katie Fogarty (09:10)
I love it, we love it — we're a continual work in progress, we're always learning. So you were at the Harvard Ed School — I know you also spent time at the Harvard Innovation Lab. Is that when you first developed the deck, your emotional intelligence card games? How did you land on what I think is your hero product, the first deck, 52 Essential Conversations?
Dr. Jenny Woo (09:33)
Yeah, there are a few things that we're triangulating. One is — I'm the first person in my family to graduate from a four-year college. And, you mentioned the word “scrappy” — being scrappy, I wanted to not just be there for this amazing, once-in-a-lifetime institutional experience for myself, but really help other scrappy folks like me, and disseminate knowledge, wisdom, research, resources, and social capital in a way that is digestible, easily usable, accessible, and culturally responsive for everyone. So I knew, walking into Harvard, that I wasn't just there for a paper — for matriculation — I wanted to do something to really level the playing field.
The second thing, which is actually quite relevant to your whole topic, is that as we confront aging, we're dealing with health issues. I had a couple of friends who were dealing with cancer diagnoses. In fact, I was actually recording a course when I had just found out a really great friend was diagnosed with a pretty progressive breast cancer. And so, walking back into recording that course, I was trying to keep it cool and do my thing. But in between takes, the producer joked around and said, “Quick, say something for your kids, as if they're watching this, right?” And my mind just jumped to: what if this were happening to me? Because the likelihood, as you get older, is that things happen. And so I began to think: how can I document these experiences, this wisdom, these things that we want our kids to know? So that if anything happens to us, we can rest in peace knowing that they're set — that they'll make responsible decisions, that they know who they are.
So in that moment, it all flashed across my mind: what do I even say? I had no words, I didn't know where to begin. And that experience started to marinate and got me thinking: okay, what skills are most important? What do I want to leave with my kids, so they know they're good people, for themselves and for each other? And what does the amazing research I was already seeing say about how you can succeed and flourish in life, across all contexts?
There was also research on conversations — out of Harvard and MIT, that same year I was at Harvard — about this magical “serve and return” conversation: not just lecturing or reading to your child, but a reciprocal, back-and-forth, authentic dialogue. It literally changes your child's brain. And this mirroring process is really good for the dyad — the parent and the child. So I'd say those three things really helped me arrive at this hero product.
Katie Fogarty (13:17)
I love this backstory, and I love the fact that you were in this moment of real tumult and upset in your own life, and you thought to yourself, ‘If this were me — have I equipped my children to manage this moment? Am I leaving them with the skills, resources, and tools that they need to navigate life?’ Jenny, we're heading into a quick break. But when we come back, I want to hear how this aha moment, as an entrepreneur, manifested itself in your first physical product. We'll be back in just a minute.
[AD BREAK]
Katie Fogarty (13:17 (cont.))
Jenny, we're back from the break. Before the break, we were talking about your aha moment, and how you realized that you needed to create something that would allow you — and other parents, and other people — to have the kinds of conversations, and gain the kinds of skills and coping mechanisms, that they need to manage whatever life throws at them, right? Could be a diagnosis, a job loss, a move, or just the desire to connect and build a robust network of meaningful relationships in our lives. So when you had this aha moment, what came next? How did you create that first deck, 52 Essential Conversations?
Dr. Jenny Woo (14:34)
Yeah, Katie. So having this aha moment really moved the needle, but I was still stuck, in some sense, because I didn't know what format — what vehicle of knowledge transmission — this was going to take. Obviously I thought about a book or a research paper, that kind of thing, but it just felt like, as a busy parent myself — as busy adults in general — how could we digest that information and then readily apply it in our own context? So I wanted something that was easier, and in some sense, playful.
We had moved from Southern California to Boston, and we wanted to take advantage of the fact that the surrounding states were so much closer. So every weekend, we pretty much drove to New Hampshire — or, as my first-grade son at the time called it, “New Hamster.”
Katie Fogarty (15:42)
I love that rebrand.
Dr. Jenny Woo (15:44)
Right? Yeah. And so we would spend all this time in the car, and I would think about how I could entertain them, and we'd have great conversations in the car. But sometimes I'd think, I don't want to talk about — I don't know what. So that started sprinkling the seed of something that is portable, playful, and fun. We used to play cards all the time — Go Fish, Crazy Eights — so that got into my brain. And what really sealed it was in a class at Harvard — we happened to be playing with a set of cards, almost like an icebreaker. On this particular set of cards, there was one question on each card. At the time, I remember remarking, ‘This is like speed dating, speed networking’ — it was pretty fun and spontaneous. And that's really when I realized: why not disseminate all this knowledge, these human skills and wisdom, in a stack of cards? But I wanted to make it a little more of a deep dive, more intentional, as you mentioned.
So I used the suits, like on playing cards — hearts, diamonds, clubs, spades — and each suit stands for a particular focus area related to a set of skills. For emotional intelligence, for example, hearts would be self-awareness. And I drew these really cute, characterized figures — like a heart that's happy, with little arms and hands around it — so sweet. And since the cards had numbers on them — Ace, 2, 3, 4, up to King — I realized these could be repurposed to remix the level of difficulty. And I decided to make Ace the easier one on the building blocks of difficulty, because kids — and really anybody — want to feel powerful, and I think we should all have a sense of self-control and agency. So I start with Ace, and then 2, 3, 4, and it works up to more and more complex topics. And that's really how 52 Essential Conversations came about. I started testing it out in the field — in schools, with friends and their kids, in their homes — videotaping and recording them, and putting together a research poster to really understand how I could make this accessible and adaptive for everyone to use.
Katie Fogarty (18:40)
And one of the things I love — when you use the word “adaptive” — I think it's important for listeners to know that 52 Essential Conversations began, and it was initially rooted in your work trying to reach children and being a parent. But now you have 11 decks that span ages, and these decks are meant to be used by anyone, at any age. In a few minutes, we're going to dive into some of the decks — you and I have each pulled some cards, and I'm going to get to ask you, and maybe you'll ask me, some of the prompts, so our listeners can have the experience of knowing what it's like to interact with one of your decks.
But before we do that, I want to ask you — I know that you launched 52 Essential Conversations, your hero product, designed to help parents with a struggle that many, many parents have, particularly of teen boys, which is what I have: when you ask your kids questions about their lives, their days, their weekends, sometimes you get a monosyllabic answer, a shrug, an “It was good, okay.” It's hard to get information. So your decks help pull information out, but the reverse is true as well, right? Because parents get to reveal information to their children that they might not otherwise share. And I love this intergenerational component. I think about myself — I'm 54. My mom knows a lot about my dating life in college and my young adulthood, but the reverse isn't true — I don't know a lot about her experience with that, and I know even less about my grandparents. So these are wonderful prompts that people can use to build this intergenerational conversation.
So — long intro to a question, but I'm getting there, Jenny, I promise there's a question at the end of this. You shared at the beginning of the conversation that you're an immigrant, that you were born in China, and that you moved here after your parents paved the way by spending time here and then brought you to join them. Have you used these decks with your own parents? And if so, have you learned anything that helps you know them better?
Dr. Jenny Woo (20:48)
Yeah. I think, because of the generation and the cultural context my parents grew up in, it's really, really hard for them to reveal insecurities and vulnerabilities. And I think the cards, like you said, Katie, definitely aren't threatening — they disarm, whether you're working with a teen or your parents. So for me, it's about level-setting your expectations. The cards are 52, but they're not meant to be used all at once — it could be a card a week, or a few cards in a car ride. Part of how you play the cards, as you alluded to, is the role modeling through opening up, but also offering the option of skipping. It's a reciprocal process — it's not just us interrogating our parents or our kids. So for me, what makes it helpful is that I also reveal something myself, to get them to open up as well.
Katie Fogarty (22:01)
That's really smart — that's a smart strategy. It makes it feel uncalculated, but it's a very generous way of being in an interaction — to reveal yourself, to make yourself open, vulnerable, and open-hearted, because that often produces the same reverb, that mirroring, from the person you're in dialogue with.
Dr. Jenny Woo (22:27)
Exactly, the mirroring. And what surprises me sometimes is that you can go off on a tangent, into something entirely unexpected — whether it's their thought process or even the topic of what they're saying — and it morphs into something different. So I think it's about being curious — that's really the number one thing: being mutually curious, respectful, and open to each other's lived experiences. And it's about tossing judgment aside. Of course, as a parent, if we hear something from our teen that surprises us, and we're like, ‘You did what?’ — that breaks down the barrier. So, yeah.
Katie Fogarty (23:20)
Well, I think it also probably depends on how you ask, because I've learned — my oldest daughter is 23, almost 24 — so I know more now about when she was 16 than I did when she was 16. The distance makes it less scary. You're more open to hearing things that might have upset you when they were 16, once they share them later. All right, so let's do this — let's dive into some of these cards.
The first one we pulled, from 52 Essential Conversations, your starting deck, is a prompt about asking for help. The card asks a person to describe a time when they were too embarrassed to ask for help. I'm wondering if you can recall a time when that applied to you — when you were too embarrassed to ask for the help you needed or wanted.
Dr. Jenny Woo (24:08)
Yeah. I think, as a new parent, I should have asked for more help than I did. I had bought into this whole idea that motherhood is all about sacrifice, and that to be a good mother you need to put your kids first and your own needs aside — otherwise you're a “selfish mom.” So I went through a period where I was really stuck. I felt like, why am I even feeling like I want to take a nap on the couch on a Sunday afternoon? That felt bad, that felt selfish. And so, instead of asking for help — reaching out to my girlfriends, my partner, other people around me — I stayed quiet. And, you know, the irony is that sometimes when we need the most help, we're actually surrounded by people, yet we feel incredibly isolated, alone, and different. That was that moment for me. And I wish I had really vocalized what I was feeling, truthfully, to the people around me, and sought some commonalities and advice from others.
Katie Fogarty (25:36)
Because you would have found — when you gave voice to what you were experiencing, and maybe the suffering or worry you had — you would have learned, by sharing it, that other people have had very similar experiences, or that even if they didn't feel they had support, they understood. I hope we're going to have time to get to your TED Talk, because you gave a TED Talk called “How to Be Selfish Without Feeling Selfish,” and I'd love to get there — I think everyone should find the time to listen to it, and I'm going to link to it in our show notes.
In that talk, you talk about this period as a new mom, and I was nodding along, because I have three children, and I experienced postpartum depression after my second — I was overwhelmed, with a toddler and a baby not sleeping through the night, and I felt really underwater. And I was too embarrassed to tell people that, which, when I think back on it now, is insane — that I didn't ask for help earlier. I did eventually get there — I shared with my husband what was going on, and then with a doctor, and I got the medicine and support I needed and was able to move through that period. But I could have short-circuited or shortcut the healing process by sharing more openly, right when I started experiencing it.
So thank you for sharing that. I think this is — you and I are both talking about a period in our young motherhood that was years ago, but there are always things going on: health challenges, job loss, relationship struggles. And I'd encourage anyone experiencing that right now to consider sharing it with somebody, because you may be surprised to get the support you need and to feel seen. So thank you, Jenny, for that.
Dr. Jenny Woo (27:21)
Yeah, and I just want to add, Katie — I think what's really relevant to our stage of life, in terms of asking for help, is that many of the people listening to this might have done really, really well, whether in their career or at home. But when we're then confronted with different milestones — like empty nesting, needing to switch careers, or maybe retirement — that's also incredibly disorienting. And having worked so hard to be successful, and externally successful, that's also a juncture where it's really hard for us to be vulnerable and ask for help. So that's something to think about, too.
Katie Fogarty (28:12)
Yeah, I absolutely love that. So this is actually a great segue into the next prompt I wanted to ask you about — it's from your deck 52 Essential Coping Skills. This one offers hands-on exercises that guide you through self-reflection, and reflection with a partner — whoever you're sharing the cards with — through journaling. Many of these cards can help users reset expectations, mindsets, and attitudes toward all aspects of life.
One of your cards is called “Name It to Tame It.” I love this, because I've learned from guests on the show who work in mental health that naming what you're experiencing is such a powerful, underrated step. Here's the prompt: ‘We can see a difficult situation as either a challenge and feel daringly excited, or a threat and feel utterly helpless. Name your source of threat instead of running away. How can you approach it as a challenge?’ How would you answer this, Jenny?
Dr. Jenny Woo (29:14)
Yeah. How we frame things is so incredibly important. Personally, I really saw the fact that I took this huge — I guess you could call it an off-ramp, or career break — as a source of threat. And I think many listeners may share this sentiment: when we have to take a career break, being the “sandwich generation,” whether caring for elders or for our kids, we wonder and doubt if we'll ever get back to the identities we once had.
For me, I was fresh out of my MBA program, on a three-year leadership rotational program — a very prestigious position. But I off-ramped around the first year, shortly after my MBA. And I could have sat there lamenting, feeling resentful. Or I could try to see it as a source of challenge — like, now I get to take on the challenge of being a caregiver. Can I make lemonade out of lemons? Can I make the most of this precious time? I think it's important for us to see a situation, or a choice we've made, not as a sacrifice, but as a privilege.
I say that partly because, when I remember coming to the United States and reuniting with my mother, one of the biggest sentiments I heard from her, for years, was how she'd sacrificed her job, her career, her wants, and moved to the United States. Now she doesn't know the language, doesn't have a job — this, that. She could have done this, could have done that. And for me, as a child hearing that kind of language, I felt blamed, I felt guilty. So that's also something we really have to think about — how our language impacts how we see ourselves, and how others see themselves and interpret their situation. So I'd say, when something like that happens, instead of seeing it as a threat, ask: how can I find the strength, and the sense of agency, in the choice I've made?
Dr. Jenny Woo (31:59)
Yeah, absolutely.
Katie Fogarty (32:00)
That sounds like such a powerful realization — being presented with something your mom shared with you, and choosing to reframe it for yourself in a different way. We all know this: life is full of things that are out of our control, and one of the only things you can control is how you react to what you're presented with. Sometimes I think getting to midlife has given me more tools in my toolkit for reacting to things in a way that makes me feel positive and proud of how I'm behaving — though I'll admit that's not always the case, and there are still times I think, ‘Oh my God, I'm 54, how have I not figured this out yet? Why am I shrieking at people in my own home?’ So it's a continual work in progress.
We're nearing the end of our time together — we have one last prompt before we get to our speed round. But first, I want to ask you a question I ask many people on the show: Could you have done this? Could you have launched these cards, could you have had the wisdom to recognize that these skills are so needed across generations and ages, when you were younger? Or did it take getting into midlife, going through your reinventions, going through your challenges, feeling the turbulence you went through as a new mom — did it take getting into midlife to do this?
Dr. Jenny Woo (33:39)
Great question. I think it really takes this time of seasoning, marinating, and distilling to get to what I've created. I don't think I could have done this in my 20s or 30s. Really, everything I've developed — these 11 card decks — originated from my own struggles and pain points. And I think, instead of seeing something as a threat, it's about how you can do something about it, so that not only you benefit, but everybody else around you does too. So yeah, Katie, I think aging is a good thing, in this sense.
Katie Fogarty (34:24)
Absolutely, I love it. Okay, so before we head into our speed round, my last question for you comes from your deck 52 Essential Gratitude & Attitude Prompts. This deck has gratitude prompts, as well as an affirmation on each card, and a quote that lets you dive a little deeper into each concept. The card we pulled reads: ‘As a reminder, we are all works in progress — we are all perfectly imperfect, and that's what makes us human.’ I love this. I think you just alluded to it when you talked about the evolution, the seasoning, the marinating that happens. What does it mean to you to be a work in progress? And where do you see yourself going next — do you have any clarity, or are you just waiting and seeing?
Dr. Jenny Woo (35:12)
I think being a work in progress is what makes us human — and, to be honest, it's what makes life worth living. It's what makes it fun and interesting. You don't want to have your whole book already written, with a clear path. So, in terms of having clarity about what's happening next — honestly, I don't, and I'm okay with that. That's what's fun, because I love the sense of flow — finding something, following your creativity, your interest, your curiosity, tinkering, playing, trying to understand it. I like this flow of life. Things come up, good or bad, and what do you do about it? So I have a general mission — what I really want to do, to leave a legacy — but I can guarantee you the cards aren't going to be the last thing I create. I'm 100% sure of that.
Katie Fogarty (36:16)
Sure. First of all, I just love this notion — you don't have to be the same woman you were yesterday. We can all continuously be writing new stories. And this notion of flow that you just talked about — it's so clear to me, from our conversation and from spending time with your material and watching your TED Talk, that you're so open to new experiences. You were open to me dropping into your inbox — the moment I finished reading that article, I thought, ‘Let me find this woman's email, I'm going to reach out.’ I think I found you over email and on LinkedIn. And you're obviously somebody who says yes to a lot of things in life, and I'm really grateful you said yes to this conversation. I appreciate it.
Dr. Jenny Woo (36:53)
Well, first of all — just so you know, I don't say yes to everything, I certainly do not say yes to everything. But having landed on your podcast and heard your episodes, I mean, you're providing an amazing resource, and I just absolutely fell in love with it. So I said, ‘Hey, I've got to talk to her.’
Katie Fogarty (37:14)
And I think that's what we're both connected on, because we love having conversations, right? This is how we learn new things, how we process what's going on in our lives. I've learned so much from recording this podcast — I've learned how to help myself with challenges I'm experiencing in midlife. I love sharing this information with others, and I get lit up every single Monday when I get to have these conversations and bring them out into the world. So, thank you.
All right, we're moving into our speed round, because our time is coming to an end. This is just one- to two-word answers — just share whatever comes to mind when you hear this. Fill in the blank: Launching a startup is…
Dr. Jenny Woo (37:59)
Thrilling.
Katie Fogarty (38:00)
Thrilling, I love it. Okay — the first time you saw your card decks for sale on Amazon, you felt…
Dr. Jenny Woo (38:02)
So many emotions — rewarding.
Katie Fogarty (38:06)
Nice, nice. What's a card prompt you've returned to again and again with your own kids?
Dr. Jenny Woo (38:14)
Identity.
Katie Fogarty (38:16)
Hmm, okay. What's one of the 52 cards in your Essential Gratitude & Attitude deck that makes you feel grounded?
Dr. Jenny Woo (38:24)
Ooh, there are so many — but one of them is: ‘What is something you can do now that people couldn't do 50 years ago?’
Katie Fogarty (38:36)
I love that. Well, first of all, the answer is yes — we can record a podcast on Riverside! I mean, the world is full of miraculous things. All right — even emotional intelligence experts need to work hard to navigate negative emotions. What's a lifestyle choice, a hack, or a decision that makes you feel at peace in your own life?
Dr. Jenny Woo (38:56)
Hmm. I think having your own boundaries — your non-negotiables — and being clear about that.
Katie Fogarty (39:03)
Nice, that's great advice. Okay — entrepreneurship is a roller coaster. Is there an app, a hack, or a tool that helps you keep the trains on the tracks?
Dr. Jenny Woo (39:20)
Uber Eats.
Katie Fogarty (39:21)
Uber Eats! Oh my gosh, I love it, I love it, I love it, I love it. All right, this one might be hard, so you can use more than one word or phrase here: you've already done a TED Talk — if you were to do a second one, what topic would you cover?
Dr. Jenny Woo (39:25)
Oh, how fun. Huh.
Katie Fogarty (39:29)
You're probably thinking, ‘Don't make me do another TED Talk.’
Dr. Jenny Woo (39:31)
Actually, I have done a second one — it's been a while. And that one was on emotional intelligence. Oh, this one's hard — emotional resilience.
Katie Fogarty (39:45)
Emotional resilience — I love it. Okay, by the way, I need to go find that — I did not do my homework as thoroughly as I thought. I'm going to find that second talk and pop both into the show notes. Okay, finally — your one-word answer to complete this sentence: ‘As I age, I feel…’
Dr. Jenny Woo (40:00)
Grounded. Grounded.
Katie Fogarty (40:02)
I love it, I love it, I love it. Jenny, this has been so much fun. Thank you — I know you don't say yes to everything, you just told me that — but thank you for saying yes to this. Before we say goodbye, how can our listeners keep following you, your work, and get access to your decks, your card decks?
Dr. Jenny Woo (40:17)
Sure — I have tons of free resources, as well as the card decks, on my website, MindBrainEmotion.com. It's also available on Amazon, and you can find me on Instagram or Facebook at Mind Brain Parenting.
Katie Fogarty (40:36)
Thank you, Jenny.
Dr. Jenny Woo (40:36 (cont.))
Thank you for having me, Katie.
Katie Fogarty (40:41)
It was fun. Yes. Beauties, do not go anywhere, because it's time for listener questions.
This question came in from a listener [name unclear in audio], who asks: “Katie, what is the biggest thing you've taken away from your guests? What's the number one thing you learn and think about?” I love this question. I learn something on every single show — I hear so much wisdom, so many smart tips, tools, and strategies that I truly incorporate into my everyday life.
I think of Dr. Molina [name unclear in audio] every time I make avocado toast and sprinkle spices on it. I think of her when I'm adding shakes of pumpkin spice and cinnamon to my oatmeal. I think of Dr. Vonda Wright twice a day, when I brush my teeth in the morning and at night, because she reminded me that standing on one leg while you do that helps improve your balance as you age. So much smart advice.
But if I were to think of the biggest takeaway — the one that really informs how I get up and get going, how I tackle new ideas, and a piece of wisdom I really want to share with all of you listeners — it's this: you do not need to know how the story is going to end to get started writing it. You do not need to know the end result of whatever action you're taking in order to get started. This is really a theme of the show.
I've heard this from Angel Cornelius, the creator and founder of the beauty brand Maison 276. Angel started mixing potions in her kitchen because she needed them herself — she did not know her story would end with her selling them online and on QVC. She just took action and followed her journey until it took her someplace really amazing.
I think of Donna Klassen, one of the co-founders of the nonprofit Let's Talk Menopause. Donna realized there wasn't enough information about menopause, and that there needed to be a collective voice to educate, empower, and advocate on behalf of menopausal women. She started that nonprofit three years ago — she did not know it would take her to the steps of the Capitol, watching the Menopause Equity Research Act being introduced. So again — she started in one place, and three years later, it took her someplace very different.
I think of [name unclear in audio] Brown, one of my early guests, who launched a party-planning company — when she threw that first party, she did not know that 15 years later she'd have a multimillion-dollar company.
But you don't have to knock it out of the park or make gigantic strides to get started. Your journey could look like going to the gym, working with a trainer, picking up weights, taking a knitting class, or volunteering at your synagogue. There are a lot of different ways to put yourself into action, and then just follow along — keep going, follow the fun, follow the breadcrumbs that take you someplace entirely new.
So that's the biggest takeaway I hear over and over again. I limited myself — I launched this podcast 170 shows ago, and I didn't realize I'd still be here, talking to women all over the globe. So get started, beauties — that is my advice.
All right, thank you so much for joining us today. Before I say goodbye, a quick favor: this was such a fab show — please forward it on to anyone in your life looking for new tools to build resilience, deepen relationships, and learn new strategies for feeling happy, calm, and connected. Dr. Jenny Woo drops so much wisdom. And a quick reminder that we would love your five-star podcast review — if you learned something on today's show, if you've got some easy ideas you're going to start using immediately, please take five minutes to write a short review over on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.
This wraps A Certain Age, a show for women who are aging without apology. Special thanks to [name unclear in audio], who composed and produced our theme music. See you next time, and until then — age boldly, beauties.
