The Magic of Switching Up Your Life Again, and Again with Career Pro Marci Alboher
Show Snapshot:
Haven’t you always wanted a second act? Meet Marci Alboher—a woman who blew right past a second act, to create multiple encore careers—and who has ideas for helping you do the same. A lawyer turned New York Times columnist turned executive at a social impact nonprofit, Marci is one of the nation’s leading voices on careers and aging with purpose. Her book "The Encore Career Handbook: How to Make a Living and a Difference in the Second Half of Life” is a blueprint for a meaningful next chapter. Bonus, we talk about the benefits of having friends of all ages and why going grey is a power move.
About Marci Alboher: Marci Alboher is Vice President at Encore.org (now CoGenerate), a nonprofit focused on second-act careers. A former New York Times columnist, she's the author of “The Encore Career Handbook,” praised by the Associated Press as a valuable resource for career transitions.
In This Episode We Cover:
1. How Marci made the leap from law to the New York Times to author to nonprofit leader.
2. How mentorship played a major role in Marci’s journey and how she pays it forward.
3. What’s an encore career?
4. What does it mean to live Gen2Gen? And why does bridging the generational divide matter?
5. Mentorship as a two-way street, plus Encore.org’s social impact “internships” for older workers.
6. The benefits of having friends of all ages, from 20-70.
7. Why it might be time to go gray.
Quotable:
On Living Gen2Gen:
I'm quite intentional about collecting friends and mentors in their seventies and in their twenties and thirties. You have to make a little effort to do that. And I find that those relationships are really rich. It's where you can learn the most.
On Mentoring:
And I learned as much from them as I think they learn from me. That to me is the whole secret sauce of mentoring--is that it is never one way. That you always receive as much as you give.
More Resources:
Marci:
Marci on Twitter
Marci on Instagram
Marci’s Modern Love column: When Your Uber Driver Brings a Time Machine
Marci’s latest article: Sophia Loren's New Film Shows the Power Of Age
Marci’s Book: The Encore Career Handbook: How to Make a Living and a Difference in the Second Half of Life
Marci’s LinkedIn Learning Course: Encore Careers
Encore:
Ecore.org Website
Ecore.org Instagram
Ecore.org Facebook
Encore’s Racial Justice Event: What Can We Do To Make 2021 Better? An Intergenerational Dialogue on Racial Justice
Encore Founder Marc Freedman’s book: How to Live Forever: The Enduring Power of Connecting the Generations
Marci Recommends:
Transcript:
Katie Fogarty (0:02)
Welcome to A Certain Age, a show for women on life after 50 who are unafraid to age out loud. I'm your host, Katie Fogarty. Have you ever had a friend say, "I want you to meet one of my most amazing friends. I know you'll love her. I really think you two should know each other"? And you look at your bursting Rolodex, your comically crowded Google calendar. You pause, you think, you hit Google, and fall down the rabbit hole of her life: a former lawyer turned journalist, a New York Times career columnist, author of two career books, writer of a Modern Love column that's burned into your brain, and now a senior executive at a nonprofit you admire. I could not say yes to this intro fast enough, and now I am so delighted to introduce the marvelous multi-hyphenate Marci Alboher to you all. Welcome, Marci.
Marci Alboher (0:51)
Oh, so excited to be here, Katie.
Katie Fogarty (0:53)
Marci, I'm thrilled that our fellow friend Katie hooked us up. In a minute, we're going to talk about the work you do at your nonprofit Encore, a social impact organization working to bridge the generational divide. But first, I really want to hear more about your various career streams. You know, I love a big, bold work pivot — you've had several. Tell us how you got where you are today.
Marci Alboher (1:15)
Happy to do that. But first, I do have to say — when you use the phrase "rabbit hole," it really hit me, because I spent the last few days going down the rabbit hole of you and A Certain Age, and I just really love the stories you're gathering there, and the fresh approach you're taking toward women of a certain age and what we're all about. So, I like to say I'm a serial career changer, although a lot of the evolution I do is often kind of hanging out in one place and thinking about the pivots we can make, even without going too far away.
So, I was a lawyer in my first career. I was the first person in my family to graduate college, and there was quite a lot of pressure on me to go out and get a profession — and, as a woman, to be able to take care of myself financially and not rely on a man. I was raised by a fairly chauvinistic father, I think, and one of the things that came out of that was him having this sense that he was the financial caretaker of the family, and my mother didn't find her own footing and independence until after he died — really, much later in life. Interestingly, he turned me into this kind of fiercely independent person in quite a lot of ways. So, it's a lot to unpack there.
Katie Fogarty (2:42)
How old was your mother when he died, and she had to step into her own power?
Marci Alboher (2:48)
My dad was 59 when he died, and my mom was 49. She basically took over a series of businesses he'd started — that she had worked in but didn't feel a real passion for. And I will say, in her 50s, my mom became this powerful entrepreneur.
Katie Fogarty (3:09)
So cool.
Marci Alboher (3:10)
Yeah, so those things really did shape me quite a lot. But as a lawyer — it's a really bad fit. A lot of people of my generation, your generation, Katie, I think we fell into career paths for various reasons. I feel like younger people today have so much more creativity about what you can do in the world. I was good with words, I was very expressive, I had a lot of passion for justice — so law seemed like the right path. And almost from the very beginning, it was a really bad fit. I didn't really take to the process of the legal world. It felt really far away from making change. I felt very constricted by the way you had to write and communicate, and the procedures you had to follow as a lawyer. And after about ten years of practicing, I also hadn't found my way to any kind of work that matched my values. I'd become a corporate lawyer — I specialized in advertising. I'd gone into law to do work with more of a social justice orientation, and I couldn't really find my way into that kind of work.
But I was always a writer at heart, and after about ten years, I decided to leave that behind and try to see if I could forge a career as a writer. Thankfully, I was married at the time — I had somebody else who was making an income, because I really just quit my job. I had a bit of a crisis of conscience, because I was working for a company I really didn't believe in at the time, and I knew I had to be able to do something more valuable in the world. I was really called to write, and I was having such a hard time breaking in. It took years of networking and taking classes. I didn't want to go back to school for journalism, because I knew the salaries were so low that I couldn't see investing in a journalism degree, and I had some credibility from being a lawyer. Eventually, I started pitching stories to the New York Times, mostly around career issues and the law, which is what I knew. And eventually, I really developed a beat around the future of careers and work, and how so many of us were trying to reinvent ourselves in a world of work that was really shifting.
Katie Fogarty (5:34)
That's such a big leap. I mean, it's amazing that you had to kind of pitch yourself, and you started off as a writer — but you were writing for the New York Times. That's a big mountain to climb. I love that you said it took a while to get there. Tell us more.
Marci Alboher (5:48)
Yeah. I also wrote — I remember now — for the legal trade publications. That was another place where I cut my teeth. But I did what all the books and all the mentors told me to do, which is: find an idea that only you can write, and start pitching those kinds of ideas. That's how I broke in. I had so many mentors in those days — people who really helped me and spent time with me. And it's why I'm really committed to mentoring now; I know how important it is to share the trade secrets.
So, I spent about the next decade building what I call a "slash identity." It was all around this issue of the future of work and careers, and also around writing, which became a real passion of mine. I was a freelance writer. I wrote my first book in that period, which was about this concept of the "slash career" — the many identities we wear. And I started teaching freelance journalism and coaching aspiring writers, because that was all very fresh to me — and I sometimes think that when you're fresh at something you've just experienced, you're in the best place to coach and guide others, which I know you're doing around this midlife work.
Katie Fogarty (7:06)
Exactly — when you get lit up by something. I can totally relate to what you're saying, because when I was breastfeeding my daughter and it was a struggle, I created an instructional video on breastfeeding with a good friend who worked in movies. You want to be helpful to people when you're going through challenges, because you want to share what you've learned and pass it on. So I love that you did that. Was your second book while you were at the New York Times, or was that once you'd shifted into this Encore career space?
Marci Alboher (7:34)
It came after I joined Encore. So, what happened was: while I was at the New York Times covering the future of work and careers, I became aware of an organization out in San Francisco — then called Civic Ventures, now called Encore.org — that was doing what I thought was really trailblazing work looking at the demographic shift toward a much more multigenerational society, with more people older than younger. They were thinking about what was going to happen for this large swath of people turning 60 at a rate of 10,000 per day — what were we going to do about all these people with incredible life and work experience, in a society that doesn't really value older people that much?
So I started following the work of Marc Freedman, the founder of Encore, and I interviewed him for a story for the New York Times. He had a book called Encore that came out in 2007. I met him through that book, and through Marc I became aware of all these people who were really working on the idea of a second or third chapter — fueled by social impact, connecting with the next generation, and ensuring you have a legacy — but also thinking about how we have to change society to make all of that normal.
Katie Fogarty (9:01)
Totally — I was blown away by a stat I saw on the Encore.org website: for the first time in U.S. history, people over 60 outnumber people under 18, which is pretty astonishing. You talk about "living gen to gen." How does Encore practice that, and how do you practice that in your own life?
Marci Alboher (9:20)
Great question. At Encore, we have a kind of dual mission. We want to change the culture, and as part of that, we tend to support people who are working on new ideas and innovations that value a multigenerational society or bring the generations together for social change. We've created some of our own programs, and we also support other thought leaders and innovators working in this space.
One example that I think would be really relevant for your listeners: we started a program called Encore Fellowships about ten years ago. When I joined, I was hitting 50 and starting to pay more attention to what was going on with older people in the workplace. One thing that became really clear is — just as I was making the shift and figuring out how to stay relevant, how to have an impact, how to keep learning as you age in a world where the rules of work were changing and I wasn't on the cutting edge anymore. I came of age thinking I was so hip because I knew all about Twitter, but suddenly Instagram was the new thing. How do you stay in the game?
So we created a one-year fellowship program for people who want to move into the social impact space later in their career. There weren't pathways like that for older people who want to reskill, retool themselves, and get comfortable working alongside — and sometimes for — younger leaders. That program has been around for ten years. If you've ever seen the movie The Intern, it's kind of like The Intern in real life.
Katie Fogarty (11:03)
So cool!
Marci Alboher (11:04)
Instead of going to work at tech startups, our Encore fellows go to work in social impact organizations and nonprofits.
Katie Fogarty (11:12)
And who are some of the people who've done fellowships? Where do they get placed? What does that look like?
Marci Alboher (11:20)
Yeah, they tend to come from the private sector. We've had a lot of people who worked in technology — some of our earliest corporate feeders were HP and Intel. People with deep experience, whether as engineers, communications people, IT, finance, or strategy. They apply to the fellowship, and we match them with nonprofits that need those kinds of skills. We can't guarantee that everyone gets matched, but we've matched 2,000 people over the last ten years, and most of them are really interested in using their skills and making a difference while also learning about a new sector. So they come in with this combination of curiosity, passion, and humility, even though they have decades of experience and so much to offer. It's a really interesting transition process. They get paid a modest stipend, so it's a little like an internship for people at midlife. There weren't programs like this before we started.
Katie Fogarty (12:32)
It's so fabulous. And that spirit of curiosity reminds me of my last guest, Gina Pell, who's the content chief of The What — she talks about the concept of being "perennial" versus being a boomer or a millennial, the idea that you can be ever-curious, ever-blooming people of all ages. It sounds like this gen-to-gen concept really aligns with that. How do you practice living gen to gen in your own life?
Marci Alboher (12:59)
Oh, so many ways. And also — I love the language, too. Another language I love a lot is the one my friend and board member Chip Conley created, called the Modern Elder.
Katie Fogarty (13:10)
Yes.
Marci Alboher (13:11)
Which is reclaiming the elder language. I really resonate with the elder concept — you know, being both a humble and wise student and a teacher at the same time. It's more about relevance than reverence. He has so many gorgeous ways of talking about that concept. So in my life, I feel like a big thing I really try to do very intentionally is connect with people both older and younger than me all the time. I collect friends. [To Katie] How old are you?
Katie Fogarty (13:45)
54. 54.
Marci Alboher (13:47)
So I'm quite intentional about collecting — I have all these friends and mentors in their 70s and in their 20s and 30s. You're going to have friends who are the same age as you; that's just part of how we're socialized. We all have, by definition, a peer group — we've gone to school with them, we've hit lots of life-stage milestones with them. But you have to go out of your way to form relationships with people who are, say, the age of your kids or your parents. You have to make a little effort. And I find those relationships are really rich — it's where you can learn the most.
When I joined Encore — I've been there now ten years — I was in my late 40s, and I started working with a bunch of people in their 60s and even early 70s, and they became such mentors to me. In fact, you're the person who introduced us, Katie — Katie Goodman is the daughter of one of my heroes and mentors, Ellen Goodman, a Pulitzer Prize–winning journalist and the founder of the Conversation Project, a really cool social venture she started in her Encore years. She was one of the older mentors I met when I came to Encore. We have a bunch of really powerhouse people on our board and in our network who showed me what it's like to continue to stay relevant and have an impact as you age. That had a huge influence on me.
Katie Fogarty (15:20)
I love that. You mention Ellen Goodman — she launched a podcast recently around the election. Talk about continuing to try new things.
Marci Alboher (15:30)
Totally right — I didn't even mention that. I mentioned the Conversation Project, which was her first "encore." But her second is the She Votes podcast, about the history of suffrage in the U.S. — amazing storytelling. She launched that with another friend; they're both in their 70s, veteran journalists who wanted to embrace the newest journalism trend.
Katie Fogarty (15:54)
I love it. You've talked about the older mentors you've found at work, but I know from what you've already shared on this podcast that you also look to mentor younger people. For our listeners who are thinking, "I want some of this — I want to figure out ways of incorporating living gen to gen in my own life" — what would you recommend they do to put this into practice?
Marci Alboher (16:16)
Yeah, two things. One: stay close to your interests. For me, writing is a huge passion, so in the last, I don't know, seven to ten years, I got really involved in an organization called Girls Write Now, spelled W-R-I-T-E. I started out just as a supporter of the organization, and then I became a board member. It's a writing-mentoring organization — we mentor New York City girls and non-binary people through intense one-on-one mentor matching, and through building an intergenerational community of women and women-identifying writers in New York City.
I loved this because I don't have kids, and I was really concerned about how I was going to connect with younger people in a city where it's often hard to find community. I went into it because I was getting as much as I was giving — I supported the organization in all kinds of ways, and I formed relationships with lots of the young people I met through it, but I also got a community out of it. It really helped me feel plugged in as a writer.
I think it's important to go into these things thinking not just "what can I give," but "what's going to make me want to show up every time?" I go to those events and think, this is the only way I know who's relevant, who are the hot new writers I should be following. It's taught me so much about issues around diversity and inclusion, and the power of promoting and supporting all kinds of underrepresented voices. Everything I've learned through Girls Write Now has seeped into the work I do at Encore. And I've developed really deep friendships with many of the young women I met through that community — I learn as much from them as I think they learn from me. To me, the whole secret sauce of mentoring is that it's never one-way — you always receive as much as you give.
Katie Fogarty (18:23)
Yeah, absolutely. And to your point about being a sponge — when you go in thinking, "I'm going to drop my wisdom," you might close yourself off from receiving all the knowledge, inspiration, and different perspectives that really fuel you. Have you pulled that into your writing? What are some examples? How do you see that blossoming in your own life?
Marci Alboher (18:47)
Yeah, it's interesting. I think the writing thing is really telling — now, instead of just going to one of my peers (we do a lot of informal editing of each other's work), there's a young woman whose writing I adore, who I met through Girls Write Now. She's a grad student at NYU, so she lives in my neighborhood, and we used to run into each other at the coffee shop pre-pandemic. Now we're sending each other our writing — via text or Instagram — and giving each other feedback, helping each other think about the good outlets. She's turning me on to things; I'm always asking her what she's reading, so I'm influenced by people who are different from me.
I also think a lot about this when I do public speaking and interviews like this one — I try to think more often about bringing along a younger person whenever I get an invitation. In real life, that meant: if you're invited to a cool event, who can I bring who wouldn't have gotten this invitation? Often that's a younger person. These days, it's often, "Who can I share the mic with?" If I get invited to speak on a panel, I'm immediately thinking about what younger person I want to bring along, or to do an interview like this.
Katie Fogarty (20:12)
That spirit of generosity is so wonderful — I love that you shared that. You probably saw this happen on Instagram, I think it was last year, when Gwyneth Paltrow launched the Share the Mic Now campaign, where women with very large platforms — white women — reached out to women of color and non-binary people of color and turned their platforms over to people in the same space, so people could get educated. I wound up adding so many more perspectives to my social media — I love following Jen Hatmaker, who is an evangelical Christian from Texas, and I follow Luvvie Ajayi, a Black woman with a very different life than mine, but I learn so much from what she shares, and she's introduced me to new people. I've tried to decolonize my bookshelf and my social media by following people who are different from me.
I'm curious, Marci — you write so beautifully. Before this session, I went down that Google rabbit hole and read a bunch of your articles, and you write with such candor — really revelatory pieces. I mentioned the Modern Love column, which ran in 2017, and when I read it yesterday — I can remember vividly reading it three years ago. It knocked my socks off, and I'm going to link to it in the show notes. But I wonder if you'd talk about that particular column with our listeners.
Marci Alboher (21:49)
I think for a lot of us who are writers, especially readers of the New York Times, that's always been a goal — to write a piece for that column. Of course, you have to have an experience in your life that fits, but it was always one of the things I wanted to do as a writer.
I had a very strange coincidence in my life a couple of years ago. The thing that sparked the column happened when I was on an Encore trip — I was out in California, and I got picked up by an Uber driver who turned out to have a very interesting connection to my prior life. That's all I'll say for now about the actual piece. But it caused me to go through an interesting process that really relates to aging and memory, and thinking about the stages of your life. I wrote the piece — it's connected, I think, to the issues you're exploring here — which is: what happens when a story that was really prevalent in your life just feels really different ten years later? I think that's a big piece of what it means to advance to the next life stage.
I wrote that story pretty quickly, but I went to my editing friend group and got a lot of feedback. I worked hard on it, pitched it, and two weeks later got that email you're dying to get — that the story was selected for the column. It was a dream to work with Dan Jones, the editor there. My story never made it to the podcast or the TV show, but it remains something I'm very proud of. It was also a pretty big milestone for me, because I got way more personal in that piece than I'd ever gotten before. I'm often writing about my life experience, but this was a layer of personal I'd never approached. All my colleagues saw it, and lots of people from my prior life saw it too. It was a pretty interesting experience, and it made me feel committed to being more vulnerable in my writing going forward.
Katie Fogarty (24:09)
I love that you're keeping it a mystery a little bit, too. Everyone listening right now needs to finish out the show, stop what they're doing, and head to the show notes at ACertainAgePod.com, because I'll be linking to this wonderful Modern Love column, and your socks are going to be knocked off — I promise.
You talked about sharing more personal things in your writing. I started the show by saying Marci and I were introduced by a mutual friend named Katie. When Marci and I started exchanging emails, I noticed that at the bottom of her email signature — right next to where you'd have the link to your LinkedIn URL or your Twitter handle — Marci had a line that said: "I've let my hair go gray." Why, and what happened on Instagram? I thought, this woman is so badass, I need to know more about this story. So I clicked over to Instagram, and I got to enjoy hearing a little bit about it.
I'd love to talk about it with you while we're sharing personal things, because I know this might seem like a little bit of a silly switch, but COVID hair has been an enormous part of the conversations I've been having with women in my life. I'd love to hear more about what made you decide to embrace going gray, and what the reactions have been from people in your life.
Marci Alboher (25:35)
It's been really interesting. I've thought about it for years — I've been curious as to what I'd look like if I let my hair go natural. I'm pretty vain — I'm terrible, we all are, we all love it. I love style and clothing, I love having a cool haircut and glasses — I'm into this stuff. And every year, for the last several years, it's been nagging at me that I chase these roots in my hair — every five weeks I'd go for color, and it started to become this thing where, every four weeks, I'd really have to touch it up, and I was even touching it up at home. It just felt like the most ridiculous, silly thing I was doing — because at the same time, since I work in the aging field, I was noticing — I was following a bunch of gray-haired models, and there's a whole "grannies of Instagram" and elder-style movement, young people who've gone gray and are really embracing it. This isn't a new trend — it's been going on for a while — and I couldn't figure out why I was so resistant to it. Because here I am, not shy about my age — I wear my age. I love the way you open the show talking about women claiming they're aging out loud, and I've done that very openly. Yet here I was, holding on to this one thing. I think I was just really attached to a particular look that felt like myself, and I was afraid of what would happen if I let it go.
Weirdly, in the first few months of COVID, when we couldn't go to hair salons and lots of people were trading recipes and techniques at home, I thought, I don't want to mess up my bathroom — this will be my COVID project, I'll just let it go for a while. And weirdly, after a couple of months, I started loving what I was seeing. People would comment on Zoom, like, "Oh, your hair is looking kind of cool." At the beginning, I was wearing it up all the time, so all you saw was the white and gray — it's more silver, really.
Katie Fogarty (27:45)
I met you on Zoom yesterday, and it's more silver — it's beautiful.
Marci Alboher (27:49)
So I was getting a lot of compliments. And then two pretty significant things happened. I was walking through my building — I live in a high-rise in Manhattan — and one of the guys who works there, who's silver himself and wears it really well, looked at me and said, "I don't think I'm allowed to say this, but I love what's going on with your hair." I think he was trying not to be inappropriate, but it stuck with me — I thought, that's interesting. Then one of my young friends, a guy I'm quite close with who just turned 30, and I were on FaceTime, and he said, "I'm really digging the hair — you're kind of like this cool teacher I would've stayed after school to talk to." I felt like, this is a new life stage — maybe I need a new look. I love it. So I'm still on the project, Katie — this doesn't happen quickly. I have inches of this weird brownish color that's not even my natural color — my natural color would be black, but it was colored over with a light brown, which is what they tell you looks nicer as you're going gray. So it's going to be forever.
I thought, wow, this also gives me something to talk about in the aging space, and to experience — because the thing that's really influenced me the most since I did this is that I do think people think I'm older. I did a post about this on Instagram: I went to get my flu shot, and as soon as I got up to the counter, the younger woman doing intake asked me if I was over 65. I'm 54.
Katie Fogarty (29:34)
So — I've always looked really young, and I definitely bristled at that. It's also possible she asked because it's a required question. But I spent a lot of time that day really sitting with my own feelings and reactions to it, thinking about how it would feel if I were job-hunting right now, or dating right now. It raised a lot of really interesting questions for me. We all have that — I remember the first time somebody called me "ma'am," and I'm looking over my shoulder like, who's he talking to? You feel like, I'm not ma'am. It's hard when people start assigning these things to you that make you feel dated, or old.
I follow a lot of wonderful silver-haired Instagram accounts too, like Cotton-Haired Woman and Silver Sisters — I'll put those in the show notes as well. I think when people have the vibrant, energetic face that you have, and silver hair, you almost look younger, because women are so beautiful when they embrace it. But the hair thing is tricky, because COVID taught me that I'm actually not blonde — I'm a brunette. I was like, wait a minute, I don't have brown hair. I know I'll be gray eventually, because my mom grayed too, but she did it later, in her 60s — so that's coming. I can relate to that whole identity of being used to looking in the mirror and expecting to see a certain face, or hair, and when it's different, it takes some getting used to.
We're nearing the end of our time, Marci. I've loved this so much — you've shared so many wonderful stories, and I have so much to put into the show notes. I hope people will come to ACertainAgePod.com to see these images and read your articles. But I want to ask: I know Encore.org has some exciting projects happening. Can you share what you're up to — a resource or a tool our listeners should know about?
Marci Alboher (31:38)
Sure, I have two. Today is a big day at Encore.org, because one of my mentors and dearest friends and colleagues, Marc Freedman, the founder and CEO of Encore, has his book How to Live Forever out in paperback as of today. That book influenced me so much in my thinking about the importance of connecting across generations — that's really the heart of what the book is about. I'm sure you can include a link to it in the show notes.
We're also working on a lot of events. One thing COVID has done for us is let us bring people together virtually for a lot of interesting online connections. I'll mention two, and I can share the links with you. One is an event a colleague of mine is hosting called Civic Saturday, this Saturday, about what she calls creating "a new civic love language." If you're familiar with the concept of love languages — what would it look like if we all practiced a little of that in our community and our civic engagement? That's this Saturday at 2 p.m. Eastern time, online.
Then, next — I think it's Tuesday, December 8th — we have the first in a series of intergenerational conversations about racial justice kicking off, with an organization we're really excited about called My Life, My Stories, which forges cross-generational relationships through storytelling. It's for anybody who wants to think about the role they personally can play in the fight for racial justice, in a way that crosses generations. So I'm really excited about both of those events.
Katie Fogarty (33:33)
Marci, thank you so much for being with us today.
Marci Alboher (33:35)
My pleasure, and I can't wait to be able to share the pod.
Katie Fogarty (33:39)
This wraps A Certain Age, a show for women over 50 who are aging without apology. I'm so grateful for your time, attention, and for listening each week. You are amazing — and because you're amazing, I want to ask you to help me grow the show. Doing so is super easy: please leave a review and rate the show on Apple Podcasts — it helps other listeners find it. Or, if Instagram or Facebook is more your thing, come keep me company over at A Certain Age Pod. Special thanks to Michael Mancini Productions, who composed and produced our theme music. See you next time — and until then, age boldly, beauties.