Nutrition Pro Rachel Hughes Wants You to Have an ‘Amicable, Loving’ Relationship with Your Body
Show Snapshot:
Midlife changes your body no ifs, ands, or buts. Want to feel healthy inside and out? Meet midlife wellness expert Rachel Hughes – a certified nutritional coach, blogger, and creator of The Meno Memos which focuses on the intersection of food, fitness, beauty, and hormones.
Rachel helps clients and her online community navigate midlife with smart nutritional choices and resources for joyful, vibrant aging.
In This Episode We Cover:
1. The link between nutrition and wellness, diet and disease.
2. If food is a “love language” – how are you speaking to your body?
3. Midlife body changes, diet culture, and why many women hit midlife and no longer want to battle their body.
4. How to develop an “amicable, loving relationship” with your body.
5. A hack to help you visualize healthy portion-sizes.
6. The skinny on plant-based eating, complex carbohydrates, lean proteins, and more.
7. The duality of midlife - a time of great richness but poignancy and loss.
8. Getting your yum on with heathy snack ideas, a superhero supermarket staple, and what to consider keeping out of the kitchen.
Quotable:
I think that women in midlife come to a realization: I don’t want to have the battle around food and my body anymore.
That’s very positive and hopefully catapults women to a much more amicable, loving, caring relationship with their bodies.
We’re all in this incredibly exciting wave of ownership of ourselves and rewriting the script around aging and around perimenopause and menopause. But there is loss involved and that is okay to talk about as well. There is room for a little poignancy and reflection around what we’re beyond.
More Resources:
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Transcript
Katie Fogarty (0:11):
Welcome to A Certain Age, a show for women who are unafraid to age out loud.
We have a fantastic show today. I’m joined by midlife wellness expert, Rachel Hughes, a certified nutrition coach, blogger, and creator of The Meno Memos which focuses on the intersection of food, fitness, beauty, and hormones. Rachel also hosts a vlog on the perimenopause app, Perry, that’s P-E-R-R-Y. I’m so excited to talk all things food, midlife, hormones, navigating the ups and downs of change, and joyful vibrant aging with her today. Welcome, Rachel.
Rachel Hughes (0:46):
Thank you so much. I’m so happy to be here and I love that intro. [laughs]
Katie (0:52):
Oh, I’m so glad. [laughs]
Rachel (0:55):
Thank you. I’ve never been introduced so lovely ish.
Katie (0:59):
Aww, that’s so fabulous. Thank you, Rachel. Well, I’m so excited to connect with you because I’ve been following your content on Instagram, I love the spirit that you bring to aging and midlife. You have such wonderful advice and I’m really excited to have you today.
So, I’d love to start by asking about your career. I said in the intro, you’re a nutrition coach, but you also blog about wellness in midlife. Which came first? Have you always worked in nutrition, or is this a second act for you?
Rachel (1:28):
So, this is certainly a second act. All of the Instagram stuff and the blogging came really in the last year. I worked for many years with a functional medicine practitioner here in Connecticut where I am and among other things, I administered treatment for chronic pain patients. And it was when successful, miraculous, and when not, it was a big bummer. But one of the things that I just sort of naturally awakened to, was peoples’ levels of inflammation when they walked in the door. And how that looked for each patient really varied, but my particular interest, my own personal interest was really in food. I love to eat, I love to cook, it’s one of my love languages. [both laugh]
Katie (2:36):
Mine too.
Rachel (2:37):
Yes! I just sort of felt like addressing food for many of the patients who walked in the door was a segue to improving their conditions. And I approached the doctor that I worked with after some time and I spoke about this with him and he thought it was great and so we kind of together developed a protocol for what patients who were interested and willing to do could follow. But again, the topic of food is more triggering and loaded for people than we often give it credit for. So, you know, some people were really open to it, sort of, addressing their wellness, addressing their hurdles in a really holistic fashion and others weren’t. And it just gave me a real window, a real insight into how significant food is, both positively and negatively for people.
And so, COVID happened and I lost my job and I had already been thinking about sort of starting an online presence around the issue of perimenopause because I was going through it. So, I’m 51 now, I started becoming apparently symptomatic around 43 and I was just really not feeling great. And really wanting to look for a sort of, like-minded people about it. But also, I felt when I looked around at social media, there weren’t a lot of women of color talking about their perimenopausal experience, which I learned after some time being on the platform, that wasn’t true at all, it was just a matter of time before I met other women.
Katie (4:47):
You found your people and found that community.
Rachel (4:51):
Yeah. And so when I did, it just sort of naturally came to pass that the things I talked about and the things that I personally experienced around perimenopause, had a lot to do with food and nutrition.
Katie (5:05):
You know, it’s so interesting Rachel because the very first show that I ever recorded, I had a functional medicine doctor by the name of Dr. Anita Sadaty. She is an OB/GYN but also certified in integrative medicine and we went through the common complaints she hears from patients regarding menopause. And she shared that the number one concern she hears from patients in midlife and menopausal weight gain. Does this surprise you?
Rachel (5:37):
It doesn’t surprise me at all. I hear it all the time as well. And I really, really recently have been thinking about where my place can be in the dialogue around it because again, food is loaded, people's relationship with food may be loaded, women’s relationship with food tends to be sort of a wrestling match for many, many years. So, by the time we get into midlife and our bodies may, quite often, sort of feel like they blindsided us and we are holding onto weight where we never once did and all of the things that we did in our twenties and thirties to drop a couple of pounds here or there seem to not work anymore.
But at the same time, there’s this very real position, I think that more women in midlife come to, which is I don’t want to have the battle anymore around food and with my body. That’s really important and hopefully very positive and hopefully catapulting so many women to a much more amicable, loving, caring relationship with their bodies. But I see it, I hear it, I experience it myself, this kind of like, Yeah I’m good with where I am and I’m not worrying about so much of this stuff anymore, but dang, when I’m standing naked in the mirror [Katie laughs] I swear I didn’t have that lump there a month ago and what the hell? Where did that come from? Can I get rid of it? Should I worry about getting rid of it? You know, all of these questions may surface.
Katie (7:39):
And, you know, I think they probably surface, these different questions probably surface on different days of different weeks. Some days you’re like, I’m all good, I’m fine. Other days you’re like, Huh, maybe I’m not feeling a hundred percent. I also hear what you’re saying about sometimes people are developing this more amicable loving relationship with their body, which I adore that concept, don’t we all want to be in that space? And then some people do really want to work on stuff that they’re unhappy with, or maybe they’ve, you know, I did a lot of banana bread eating during COVID, I don’t have to keep doing that. So, let’s take it from a healthy perspective. If somebody has had a healthy relationship with their body but wants to make sure that they are remaining fit and healthy as they age, what advice would you be giving to them in terms of their diet?
Rachel (8:35):
Sure. So, part of my position is that what works in your life is what’s going to work for you. So, if you have never been before an intermittent faster, for example, but you’ve maintained a healthy weight most of your life, you work out, your stress levels well maintained, you may find you want to lose ten pounds and so you want to launch into intermittent fasting. If that is not a realistic lifestyle for you because the most important thing, and I say this to any and everyone, is consistency; and it’s not consistency over a month, it’s consistency over many, many months and years. So, even for someone who tries intermittent fasting and discovers, I’ve lost ten pounds and it was so quick and it was so easy, are you going to maintain that lifestyle now for the next ten years? Because that’s what you really need to do, otherwise you will put the weight back on. That’s what’s gonna happen, your body wants to find a balance and you’ve sort of shaken it out of balance by intermittent fasting and now it’s in a new place and you need to maintain that new place, or the body’s done with it. So, that is the first thing I would say, what can you, in your personal life, remain consistent with.
The other thing is to certainly be consuming a lot of plants. That doesn’t mean that you need to consume a tremendous amount of volume of plants during every meal, but it does mean that every meal should contain plants. Snacks can be plants; I’m talking about things like fruits and vegetables, complex carbohydrates, things that keep your blood sugar stable. And then that leads me to a conversation about blood sugar which is probably the primary focus I would encourage women to think about, particularly in midlife. Because not only are you sort of priming yourself for health and longevity if you have balanced blood sugar—so you’re going to be staving off things like diabetes and obesity and all the many chronic conditions that people face as they enter into the second half of their life—but keeping your blood sugar from spiking and crashing throughout the day is really what kind of helps you get cravings under control, not consume such a tremendous volume of food, not desire things that are gonna kind of give you a pep like sugar and caffeine.
Katie (11:36):
This is something that I absolutely need in my life Rachel. I’m so excited that you’re talking about this. We’re gonna take a quick break, but when we come back I want to hear about how you can encourage clients to manage their blood sugar more effectively. We’ll be back after this quick break.
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Katie (12:56):
Okay, Rachel, I have those cravings that you talked about, those sort of highs and lows and it definitely seems like a blood sugar issue. What would you say to somebody like me who really finds, you know, I get that 3 PM must-have-a-cookie kind of craving?
Rachel (13:13):
So that very common 3 PM must-have-a-cookie thing is usually because your blood sugar has been out of whack for the last several hours. So, depending on how you started your day, you may be setting yourself up for that dip. One thing to keep in mind, there are actually three things, one principle is that your meals, which may be two or three sort of significant meals a day, contain protein, a complex carbohydrate, and healthy fat. So, that combination of foods tends to fill you up.
Katie (13:54):
And what are those complex carbohydrates?
Rachel (13:57):
Sure. Complex carbohydrates are things like fruits and vegetables, raw vegetables, cooked vegetables, fruits. Some grains are okay, some people are not great with grains meaning they have gastrointestinal issues as a result of grains. So, that’s not really the primary thing and people get, it’s really easy to sort of say, “I can have all the grains I want and I’m gonna eat a ton of wild rice.” Well, that’s a lot of wild rice and even though it’s a better carbohydrate to choose than something like white bread, it’s a lot to put into your body and it’s caloric-wise, just too much. But complex carbohydrates like a beautiful arugula salad with some cooked eggplant and slices of avocado would be your healthy fat, a drizzle of extra virgin olive oil, a squeeze of lemon.
Katie (15:02):
You are making me hungry Rachel. [both laugh]
Rachel (15:05):
I’m glad.
Katie (15:06):
We’re recording this at lunchtime and I’m like, "That salad sounds really good." [laughs]
Rachel (15:11):
Oh good. And a piece of fish or chicken. You know, red meat is okay, it’s certainly high protein content but it’s probably not the best choice. But if you enjoy it, eat it. Same with pork, eat it. Fish is probably the best thing. Then of course there are plant protein sources for those who don’t want to consume animal protein. And really what I kind of encourage people to think about is your plate, and I’m sure you’ve heard this before, would be both of your hands put together. And one side of that plate would be a combination of cooked and raw vegetables or three-quarters of your entire hand would be cooked and raw vegetables; one-quarter of that hand would be a healthy fat source, and your other palm would be the amount of protein you should consume; and the last quarter of your hand can be something like a sweet potato or white potatoes, which no one should be afraid of, or some sort of grain.
Katie (16:28):
These are such great imagery and I’ve never heard that before. I love this, it’s so easy to visualize your plate, your hands, and the portion of what you should be eating which is such a terrific visual. I had a guest on a couple of episodes ago who wrote a wonderful cookbook called Weekday Vegetarians, her name is Jenny Rosenstrach. She talked about how she and her family choose to eat plant-based during the week and they indulge in things like meat and other kinds of animal proteins during the weekend and I thought this was such a wonderful idea so I’m gonna put that into the show notes as well if people are looking for ideas on how to include more plant-based foods.
Where do you get your recipes from? Can you direct our listeners to anything that you find useful in terms of creating the types of meals you recommend?
Rachel (17:22):
I love that. You know, there are hosts of great chefs and celebrity chefs out there who I enjoy as much as anyone else. And I will often take their recipes and adapt them accordingly. So, I am a big fan of places like Cook’s Country and America’s Test Kitchen and Giada De Laurentiis and Barefoot Contessa and Dana James who is a nutritionist and has written a book called The Archetype Diet which is a really interesting read. But she has a lot of plant-based recipes that are, for me, just really good sort of basic foundations from which I springboard other things.
Katie (18:18):
Those are all great recommendations. I’m not familiar with that author so I’m gonna look that up and put it in the show notes. But I know the Barefoot Contessa, I’ve got all of her cookbooks. Not only is her food healthy, and wonderful, and delicious, it’s fairly simple to make.
Rachel (18:33):
That’s key as well. People have a lot going on and I’m someone who loves to cook, but I don’t want to be in the kitchen for hours and hours at a time. It should be that you cook things that are tasty and good for you and you can keep them in the fridge for several days. Cook enough that you’re not constantly having to cook and do think about eating more plants. That really, we’ve heard it for years, Mark Bittman, that’s another…
Katie (19:09):
Yes, I love him. The Minimalist.
Rachel (19:11):
Yeah. And this idea that you just eat more plants. It really makes such a difference. It really, really does. And I’ve found that you know again, being consistent about these principles has helped me tremendously with my perimenopausal symptoms.
Katie (19:33):
And so Rachel, we said at the beginning that food can be very triggering for women, that diet culture is real, any woman listening to this show has been fed a steady stream of stuff by pop culture and media about what it looks like to be an ideal figure and that type of thing. We covered some of the foundational building blocks for eating healthy foods, for anyone. But if you were working with a client who was really struggling with their self-confidence around their weight, is there any particular coaching that you might share to help them move through this feeling of maybe inadequacy or struggle?
Rachel (20:14):
That’s such a good question. I am not a therapist, I wish that I was. I think that…
Katie (20:23):
But speaking just as a human, and a good friend, and a sympathetic ear which you are. What might you say to somebody?
Rachel (20:31):
Yeah, I mean that certainly would be my approach because I don’t have that kind of mental health training but I really think it’s important for women to get sort of, down to the bare bones as to why food may be such an issue for them. And more often than not, just about anything else in our lives, our relationships with friends, with spouses, with children, with parents, it’s often connected to an event or a period of time or a message that we received or interpreted as such, that sort of spins our understanding of what food is for us. So, for example, I grew up in a home with a mother who is very teeny tiny person and was very stressed out and didn’t think to eat a lot herself because she was having a stressful time as a single mother and food was not her priority. And I definitely have residual issues around an empty refrigerator. I don’t like it. I like my refrigerator packed, I don’t like when it’s looking bare.
Katie (22:01):
I get that.
Rachel (22:02):
Yeah, I get nervous. But then I also was a dancer for many, many years and certainly received a message daily that you could never be skinny enough. And that really did a number on me for many, many, many years. And you know, those are just two of several things that I can point to specifically. So, when I speak with women who are struggling and feeling, as you say, inadequate and really troubled by their bodies and how their bodies may be changing or sort of not, you know, not relenting to their will, I talk a lot about what’s happened in the past. And more than often, there’s something, there’s a message received. And once we kind of share a bit about that, I think it helps to begin to shift the relationship. And it takes a long time. It really, really does.
And I think that’s also a little bit challenging, it’s that we are in midlife and we’re looking at the second half. But you know, this sounds so dark, I don’t mean it to, but I do think that some of us are thinking, I only have so many years left and I want them to be vibrant, I want to be healthy, I want to look good, I want to feel good. So, there is perhaps a sense of urgency but there really can’t be. And there really has to be a trust that a woman has on her own, where she says to herself and she gets to the point where she trusts herself around food and she trusts that she knows how to feed herself. You know, diet culture tells us on repeat that we don’t know how to do that, that we can’t be trusted to feed ourselves well. And we accept that and we purchase this diet and that diet. I’ve done it, I’ve done it all so I really, really get it. Again, it’s sort of feeding this sense of urgency that we have.
Katie (24:25):
That doesn’t sound dark at all to me Rachel, it really doesn’t. It sounds like a really honest appraisal of a situation that a lot of women find themselves in. We are excited to be in this phase of our life where perhaps we have more confidence in ourselves, we’re better able to prioritize what we care about, we’re able to prioritize taking care of ourselves. If we’re mothers, our kids are older and require less time which can be liberating, but as you shared it can also be a time of loss which doesn’t get talked about as much. We lose estrogen, we lose children to their adult lives, you lost your job during COVID, marriages change, friendship changes, even our sense of what makes us feel feminine changes.
Rachel (25:11):
Those are all such good points. I really think that’s so true and needs to be looked at. We’re all in this incredibly exciting wave of ownership of ourselves and sort of, rewriting the script around aging and around perimenopause and menopause. But there is loss involved and that is okay to talk about as well and I think really important, too. It’s easy to get swept up in all things good and all things strong and all things powerful and that is all true, but there is room for a little poignancy and reflection around what we’re beyond. And that’s okay. Change isn’t bad necessarily, but it is different.
Katie (26:11):
Absolutely. So Rachel, who are the women in midlife that inspire you? Do you look around and see people either on social media or in your own life that kind of let you up and, you know, we talked about the two sides of the coin of life; life is full of things that are rich and wonderful and things that are challenging and loss. Who would inspire you to look at midlife as this time of excitement?
Rachel (26:36):
This is such a good question.
Katie (26:38):
[laughs] Thank you so much, you’re making me feel good, you’re coming on next week.
Rachel (26:44):
Oh no really, your questions are great. I find this question the most challenging though. Because I am struck by women all around me. I’m struck by you doing this kind of work, I’m struck by so many women I’ve met in one way or another on this Instagram platform, talking about really their season of reinvention and reinvigoration; I am boosted by all of that. There are also authors I’m inspired by, there are activists who I’m inspired by. And I was giving some thought to this, I was thinking about younger women who are perhaps nowhere near perimenopause, unless they’ve had some sort of surgical menopause or something like that, but I’m talking about women who are just younger, who are very open about their lives. And you know, I’m as guilty as the next as saying, “Oh my God, they can’t stop sharing,” or whatever. But I also find it really inspiring and I think it’s helped our generation to also say, you know, there is no reason, there is no earthly reason that this very natural phase of life, however you get there, is not spoken about openly. The good, the bad, the ugly, the rejoiceful parts of it are all to be explored and shared and, you know, there’s no shame in any of it. I guess I mean, I hesitate to just pull out names just because there would be so many people I would neglect to mention, but truly, truly, truly, I am inspired by the women I’ve connected with on this platform. They’re just dynamic people, they really are.
Katie (29:00):
Yeah, there’s inspiration all around you. I agree. I had a wonderful guest on this show, an author and podcaster by the name of Nancy Davis Kho and she wrote a book called The Thank You Project, and it’s about looking for things to be thankful for in your life. And she shared something when she came on the show that if you look for things to be grateful for, you’re gonna find them.
Rachel (29:25):
I love that.
Katie (29:25):
So, if you’re looking for things to be inspired by, or people to be inspired by, you’re gonna find them. Listen to the other episodes of my podcast, every single woman who comes on knocks my socks off every week. Get on Instagram, don’t be afraid of social media, it gets a bad rap. There are tons of people sharing wonderful content including Rachel. I think of Paulina Porizkhova who talks about sexy has no expiration date. I think about Charlotte Japp from CIRKEL which is a multigenerational networking platform where she connects people across generations. I think of Generation Women which is a storytelling live event in New York where they have different people sharing perspectives across generations. So, there’s so much inspiration out there, I absolutely love that.
Rachel, we’re getting near the end of our time together. I know we’re gonna move into a speed round soon but before we do, I want to take a quick moment to talk about blogging and vlogging in a crowded space. You have been able to break through, you have a nice robust Instagram following, you’re having regular conversations, vlogs every week on the Hello Perry app. How did you break into this market and what have you learned from the conversations you’re having?
Rachel (30:44):
Yeah, so I, full disclosure, I have been enormously lazy about blogging. [Katie laughs] It’s hard, it’s one of my primary symptoms of perimenopause is brain fog and it is truly something I grapple with. And sitting down and writing, it’s a muscle, it should be worked at daily and I can slack on that.
Katie (31:18):
I love this, I can too. This makes me feel better. [Rachel laughs] every woman is nodding, they’re like, “Oh good, not just me.”
Rachel (31:25):
I am so impressed with people who can just sit down and just hammer it out, that is not my gig. But with that, I have been able to form a relationship with the founders at Perry and, you know, I really love the community, I love the women that I’ve met there. Everyone is so warm and open and just honest about what’s happening and it helps each and every one of us. What I just sort of naturally noticed was that their private Facebook community would get a new influx of women and they would all be asking the same questions. I thought, you know, it would be cool if they had some sort of video library. So, I spoke with the founder and I tossed that idea her way and I said you know, I’m not equipped to do this kind of stuff on my own but you guys are and you should think about doing that. It would be cool to have people be able to log on and you know, click on a video that provided lots of answers about any given subject and she said, “That sounds great, would you like to do it?” I said sure. So, we started and we’ve done I believe almost 25 interviews now.
Katie (32:48):
And what are the types of topics that you cover?
Rachel (32:50):
Everything. We talk about vaginas, [Katie laughs] I have spoken about vaginas more in the last couple of months...
Katie (33:02):
This show is no stranger to the word vagina, believe me....
Rachel (33:05):
My God, [laughs] it’s so funny. So, you know, anything regarding vaginal health, urinary health, pelvic floor, emotional changes, mental health issues, sex, things related to sex, and healthy sex. You know and then also we’ve spoken to people who their presence themselves online is really about encouraging women to live very fruitful and exciting and healthy second half of life. So, we’ve had guests who can speak about that and have their own companies if you will, that work with women on that. We’ve spoken with activists who are speaking specifically to Black and Brown women going through this phase of life and you know, looking at equitable resources, women who speak to the Trans community, and this season we’re gonna be speaking with women who have gone through early menopause for one reason or another, physicians who can speak about cancer and perimenopause, menopause, fitness, you know it just goes on and on.
Katie (34:31):
So many wonderful topics.
Rachel (34:32):
Yeah, it really is, anything you can think of we want to talk about it, and that’s what we’ve been doing.
Katie (34:39):
I love this. So Rachel, having all these conversations, these 20 plus conversations, spending time on your Instagram and the company of women thriving in midlife. Knowing what you now know about this season, what would you go back and tell your younger self?
Rachel (34:55):
Oh gosh.
Katie (34:57):
[laughs] This one’s hard, don’t ask me this one.
Rachel (35:00):
It is hard. It is hard. You know, I would honestly be nothing but encouraging to my younger self. I had no idea how positive and exciting and, you know, just hopeful this time of life would be. And even though there are physiological challenges at some points, it really is this enormously freeing, self-defining season. And that, I don’t think younger people, certainly myself would have believed or understood. But I certainly would have encouraged that. And I also would have encouraged myself to have been at that time and throughout my years, much more of a risk-taker. But again, that sort of speaks to things like around, things that you want to work out at therapy and that kind of stuff. But I do think some people are just innately that way and many others aren’t. And many others are women who aren’t and I really would have encouraged myself to take many more risks and trust that things worked out because…
Katie (36:21):
Yes, I love that. And that’s something that we need to be telling ourselves today as well, not just our younger selves but our today self. Be willing to take risks, be willing to be uncomfortable, be willing to put yourself out there because when you do, you open yourself up to wonderful, wonderful opportunities and wonderful possibilities.
Rachel (36:41):
We did an interview not too long ago with a woman who shared that she tells people to say yes more. And I love that and I feel the same way. We should be saying yes more right now at this time of life. So yes, I would encourage my younger self and to your point, certainly, remind myself to do that today.
Katie (37:08):
This is perfect. Say yes, take risks. All right, let’s move on to our speed round. Brace yourself, this is not hard. [Rachel laughs] Maybe one, two-word answers. Running my own business is _____.
Rachel (37:25):
Enlightening.
Katie (37:26):
Ooo, my superpower at work _____.
Rachel (37:30):
Intuition.
Katie (37:32):
My superpower at home _____.
Rachel (37:33):
Intuition. [both laugh]
Katie (37:36):
My favorite healthy snack _____.
Rachel (37:40):
Oh! Carrot sticks and guacamole.
Katie (37:47):
Yum. This food is always in my grocery cart _____.
Rachel (37:51):
Spinach.
Katie (37:52):
You will never find this in my kitchen _____.
Rachel (37:55):
Coca-cola.
Katie (37:57):
Favorite self-care practice _____.
Rachel (38:00):
Meditation.
Katie (38:01):
Best stress buster _____.
Rachel (38:03):
Exercise.
Katie (38:05):
On weekends you will find me _____.
Rachel (38:11):
Cooking.
Katie (38:12):
If I weren’t a wellness and nutrition expert I would be a _____.
Rachel (38:18):
Film critic.
Katie (38:19):
Ooo! I love it, I love it. [Rachel laughs] That’s so great, that’s interesting. Rachel this has been really fun. I’m inspired by your outlook on aging and community-building and I feel like I learned a lot about, you know, making better nutritional choices and also maybe being relaxed about making nutritional choices. I really appreciate your time. Before we say goodbye, how can our listeners keep learning more about you and your work and your services?
Rachel (38:52):
Sure thing. Well, first of all, thank you so much for having me it’s been such a pleasure I absolutely enjoyed this time. You can find me @themenomemos on Instagram and also on the Perry app which you can download for free and get involved in that community and see me interviewing lots of people.
Katie (39:15):
Fabulous. I will put those all in the show notes. Thank you very much, Rachel.
This wraps A Certain Age, a show for women who are aging without apology. Join me next Monday when I talk with Nina Lorez Collins of Revel and The Wolfer which offer community and event platforms for midlife women.
Special thanks to Michael Mancini who composed and produced our theme music. See you next time and until then: age boldly, beauties.