Revitalize Your Midlife Skin with Dr. Keira Barr
Show Snapshot:
Ready to love the skin you’re in? Meet Dr. Keira Barr, a dermatologist, menopause specialist, and the author of The Skin Whisperer; A Dermatologist Reveals How To Look Younger, Radiate Beauty, and Live the Life You Crave. We talk glowing skin, managing menopausal hormone disruptions (adult acne what?!?), and must-have products. Plus, foods that fuel radiant skin and a deep dive on sunblock.
In This Episode We Cover:
1. Forget anti-aging. Think age-positive skin care.
2. How menopause and hormone disruptions impact midlife skin.
3. Good news! The two best practices for radiant skin are easy and cheap.
4. Skincare products to invest in, what you can get at the drugstore or even DIY.
5. Sunblock is a skincare BFF, but so are these other tools.
6. Skincare superheroes – products, foods, and simple steps for glow skin.
7. Morning and evening skincare routines demystified.
8. You may be sun blocking yourself wrong.
9. Supplements, serums, tinted moisturizers and more!
Quotable:
Your skin rejuvenates at night. When we sleep we produce melatonin and melatonin is one of the most potent antioxidants that our body can produce. Melatonin can help boost immunity. It's adjuvant therapy for cancer treatment; breast cancer, lung cancer, skin cancer. It helps repair the DNA damage that you are incurring every day from air pollution, UV exposure. Prioritizing your sleep helps your body heal itself.
As estrogen is diminishing and plays such a significant role in collagen formation and hyaluronic acid production, you will notice as it diminishes that the skin may be a little bit saggier, a little bit thinner, a little bit drier. So, what can you do? A lot of it is prevention. And it goes back to lifestyle factors. Beauty sleep is real.
More Resources:
Dr. Barr’s Book:
Dr. Barr’s FREE Glowing Skin Guide
Dr. Barr on Social:
Dr. Barr’s DIY Clay Mask
Mask Recipe:
~2 Tablespoons clay
~1 Tablespoon goat milk powder
~Chamomile or calendula hydrosol to make a paste (can also use water)
That’s it! Super easy.
Transcript
Katie Fogarty (00:09):
Welcome to A Certain Age, a show for women on life after 50 who are unafraid to age out loud. I’m your host, Katie Fogarty.
Ready to love the skin you’re in? Meet Dr. Keira Barr, a dual board-certified dermatologist, menopause specialist, and the author of The Skin Whisperer; A Dermatologist Reveals How To Look Younger, Radiate Beauty, and Live the Life You Crave. Keira creates glowing skin from the inside out and complements her medical work with inner work to help midlife women feel at ease in their body and comfortable in their skin. I’m so excited to have her with us today to kick off our September shows and our focus on beauty and sleep. Welcome, Keira.
Dr. Keira Barr (00:49):
Thank you, excited to be here.
Katie (00:51):
Can you tell our listeners where you’re joining us from today?
Keira (00:54):
I live on an island. [laughs]
Katie (00:56):
I love it.
Keira (00:56):
Sometimes I feel like I’m always alone on an island, but I live on a literal island south of Seattle, so in the beautiful Pacific Northwest.
Katie (01:05):
We have listeners from all over the country, so when people are tuning in from different spots it’s kinda fun to hear where they’re coming from. So thank you so much for being with me today. I’m excited. And I want to start by asking you about something I read on your website. I know you’ve had a 20-year career as a doctor, that you were a professor of dermatology. And your website says, “I’m not here to help you defy aging, I’m here to help you really enjoy midlife and show up the way you want to in the world.” And I love this. Because as midlife women, you know, we’re often bombarded with anti-aging marketing and ads and you really take an age-positive approach to your patient care. So I was curious, has this always been the case? Or has this evolved as you yourself have aged?
Keira (01:48):
That’s a great question. You know, I think it’s something I’ve always felt. When I was practicing dermatology because I’ve stepped away from traditional practice but I am a clinical dermatologist, but I was always behind the microscope. If you ever had a biopsy, I was the one to make the diagnosis. So I had always kind of shied away from aesthetics in some way because I thought…is it okay to say?
Katie(02:13):
Yeah. [Keira laughs] You can say whatever you want. Listen, you don’t make it to midlife without being able to say what you want. Please, go for it.
Keira (02:23):
Exactly. [both laugh] No but I mean, I already struggled with feeling shitty about myself. I realized how I even wound up in dermatology, and it really didn’t become clear until very recently, like, I was bullied as a kid for what was on my skin. And at a very young age, I realized that appearance can be a source of shame, anxiety, and overwhelm. I really in some ways took offense, don’t get me wrong, there are aesthetic procedures and there are products and other things that are amazing, but it has to be the intention behind it. And I think for women, we are conditioned to believe that there is something wrong with us that we need to cover up, that we need to fix. Anti-aging? Are you kidding me? None of us are Benjamin Button, we are aging. [laughs]
Katie (03:10):
Yes, totally. And frankly, I’m grateful to be aging because it certainly beats the alternative. [laughs]
Keira (03:16):
Yes, exactly, exactly. So I think, you know, I champion for women who want to take really good care of themselves, right? Be empowered to indulge in things—if it is a little botox, a little filler, a little laser—absolutely. If you’re doing it from a place of love, to amplify what you already feel is amazing, versus doing it because you think doing these things is going to somehow make you feel beautiful. It just doesn’t work like that. So, I really want to kind of shift the conversation that you don’t need all the things to enjoy midlife. In fact, we can put a lot of that aside and really just embrace who we are. And like you said, celebrate the fact that we are on this side of the dirt right now. [Katie laughs]
Katie (04:13):
[laughs] Exactly. You know, getting older is a privilege, it’s a gift. We’ve all had people in our lives, I’m sure that we’ve lost and we’re happy to be here. So, I really connect with that spirit.
So, it sounds like at one point you were behind the microscope and doing very academic dermatology. When did start to shift into doing client work? Because I know those are some of the services that you offer today to patients.
Keira (04:40):
Yeah. So, right now I’m full-time doing coaching and consulting. So, it really started stemming from my childhood and feeling really uncomfortable in my skin and spending years sun tanning and burning myself, not realizing the impact that that was having on my skin. And so, about nine years ago, fast forward, I’m a dermatologist, the focus of my career is skin cancer and melanoma and I found a spot on my arm that I had to diagnose myself, both clinically and pathologically with melanoma. So, I had to diagnose myself with the very disease that I was an expert at treating and it was kind of like, a wake-up call for me. But not enough of a wake-up call. It wasn’t until my health really started to go downhill where I tore my hip because I was running ultra marathons. I was over-exercising, I was overworking, I was burning myself out. I was hustling for my worth, hustling my way to cancer, hormone imbalances, and burnout and going to my western-trained physician colleagues asking for help, seeking help, and just getting a pile of pills and still feeling like shit. And I thought, okay, I’m a physician of over 20 years and I don’t know what the hell is going on with my body, I don’t know how to help myself. How is the average woman supposed to understand what is going on in her body?
Katie (06:14):
Right.
Keira (06:14):
It really lead me down the path of pursuing functional medicine and integrative medicine and getting coaches and finally getting into therapy and all the things, and it really opened my eyes to the fact that there is a different way, it doesn’t have to be this way, and there are so many of us women who are just struggling and need the support. If I can come through this, anyone can, but we all need a guide.
Katie (06:46):
Yeah, you need support and information. So was this when you got your— Because I know that you’re a menopause specialist as well. Was this part of your transformation and your journey, when you started to embrace functional medicine and do those studies.
Keira (06:58):
Yeah, so it was part of my own healing and it was just actually in this past year. I chose to have a hysterectomy several years ago, so I don’t actually know when I technically would have gone into menopause but it was kinda forced upon me, and wasn’t really feeling well. And so my physician put me on bio-identical hormones and she said to me, “You should meet the founder of this company who was making these bio-identical oils,” it was bio-identical hormone replacement therapy in organic oils. So, I set up a call to meet him, and next thing you know, it was supposed to be a 20-minute meet and greet, “Here’s our product, dah-dah-dah,” and next thing you know, I’m enrolled in a mentorship [laughs] of you know, learning how to do this. I thought, this is amazing, how can I help other women? Help myself and help other women. And this was an intense year of really diving back into medicine but what I found is when I was spending an hour with women, optimizing their hormones, things looked really balanced on paper, the majority of our time together would be spent helping her navigate the anxiety and the stress and overwhelm that wasn’t going away just by balancing her hormones and I realized, this is where I need to focus my work. All the work I had done in my mind-body medicine, in mindful self-compassion, and all the things… This is where I felt I could help women the most and that really has parlayed into what I’m doing now full time coaching midlife women.
Katie (08:40):
I love that that’s such an interesting transition, that you were able to take what you were experiencing and recognize that your patients were coming to you from the same things and to go on this journey together.
So, I’m curious, when you took on this menopause specialty studies, we all know that menopause and midlife do produce changes in our bodies. While we are age-positive on this show and we’re excited about midlife and we feel confident now that we’re here, we still do want to take care of ourselves, and be healthy, and feel and look great. And menopause can sometimes get in the way of that for us. In terms of the changes we can expect to see in our skin—for example since this is your specialty with wrinkles and brown spots and you know, increasing in bruising and healing more slowly—what are the most common concerns that you see in a woman’s skin during midlife and during menopause?
Keira (09:36):
Yeah, you touched on a bunch of them but I think some of the common things that women will say, be like, “All right, I’m growing bald, I’m growing a beard, WTF? What is happening right now?” [both laugh]
Katie (09:51):
Is that a thing? I actually haven’t heard— My friends and I talk about everything and no one has confessed to having beards yet. Is it true?
Keira (09:59):
Not full-on beard but they’re noticing coarse hairs, some women are shaving, they’re like, “What is going on? I’m growing hair on my face and I’m losing it on my head, I don’t appreciate this at all.”
Katie (10:08):
Right, this is like a bad combo.
Keira (10:10):
It is a bad combo and you know, what it comes down to is, starting in our mid to late thirties, well some in our twenties our hormones are really shifting, but it becomes more noticeable in mid to late thirties. Many women are entering perimenopause in their thirties and may not be able to connect the dots, they may not realize this. I didn’t, because I thought menopause was something that happened in your late forties, at the earliest, fifties, I had no idea. They didn’t teach us this in medical school. So, starting in your mid to late thirties, progesterone is the first hormone that starts to diminish the most rapidly. Progesterone is the great calming hormone, it elevates in the second half of pregnancies it’s really what relaxes the muscles so we can more easily deliver these babies. And it also helps us feel more relaxed and calm in our body. So, starting in your mid to late thirties, you might realize, “hmm, I’m not sleeping as well,” or, “I’m feeling a little bit more anxious. I know I’m a Type A person but I’m really feeling more anxious,” and that may be the impact of progesterone starting to decline, progesterone has an interplay with a brain chemical called GABA which also helps modulate that sense of calm and relaxation.
Now, why I’m mentioning this is just to kind of set the stage for the next hormone that really starts to diminish is your estrogen. It is declining at the same time as progesterone but not at as a precipitous rate. Estrogen is really what we think of when it comes to our skin health. Estrogen plays such a significant role in collagen formation in hyaluronic acid production, so it gives skin that youthful, supple appearance. It also has an impact on your hair cycle. So, estrogen plays a role in prolonging that hair growth phase which is why when those of us who have been pregnant, your hair just looks luscious and full when you’re pregnant. And then once you have that baby, all of a sudden, it’s just like massive shedding.
Katie (12:12):
Yes, totally.
Keira (12:12):
Right, because hair cycles just shift. You’re not imagining it and there’s nothing wrong with you, this is a natural process, your hair grows in three separate phases; a resting phase, a growing phase, and a falling out phase. So, when we are going through that menopause transition as estrogen is declining, your hairs aren’t staying in the growth phase as long. So, hair you know isn’t growing as rapidly and your hair cycle is not always in sync. Then the caveat to that is then you’ve got your androgens, your testosterone. Now, on your scalp, and so, progesterone is going down first, then estrogen is starting to decline and testosterone is also starting to decline but at an even slower rate so, you have what we call a relative androgen dominance. And on the scalp what happens is, testosterone can cause the hair follicles on your scalp to, what we call, miniaturize. The caliber of the hair gets thinner, so it looks like your hair is thinning. You might have widening of the part, male pattern baldness, female pattern baldness. Now, on your face, the androgens have the exact opposite, they can stimulate hair growth.
Katie (13:31):
This seems so unfair. [laughs]
Keira (13:33):
Right. And so progesterone, why I mention the importance of it declining first, is progesterone does play a role in blocking the testosterone from converting to its more potent form. So, without as much progesterone on board, you’ve got this kind of more potent form of testosterone going after those hair follicles. All the more that you’re noticing your hair is thinning and you might have coarse hairs growing on your face. So it is, it’s fascinating in terms of the science, but it’s a real pain in the ass if you’re a woman who is dealing with this.
Katie (14:08):
So what are some of the solutions then? Is it to regulate your hormones internally by diet and medicine? Or is it also to incorporate kind of, I dunno, stress-busting techniques that help reset your hormones? What do you recommend to patients who are struggling with this?
Keira (14:28):
It’s a great question and the answer is, it depends and all of it. [laughs] So depending on where a woman is in her transition, how regular her cycles are, what is her lifestyle? I always start by finding out, what’s going on in your world? How are you sleeping, what is your day-to-day like? Are there certain stressors that are shifting your hormones further out of balance? They’re naturally gonna be declining, but are we speeding up the process? As you mentioned, stress, stress is huge. Our body prioritizes our survival and as we are feeling stress, either physical, emotional, whether real or perceived, like hello, we’re living in a pandemic, hurricanes—
Katie (15:14):
We’re living through the most stressful time anyone can imagine.
Keira (15:17):
Really stressful times. And so, we’re meant to have acute stress response, to get out of harms way immediately, but most of us feel like we’re living in harm's way at all of the time. So, as your stress hormone cortisol is staying high, it is basically telling the rest of your body like, yeah, we’re not gonna prioritize thyroid function, we’re not gonna prioritize your libido, we don’t get time for that, we just gotta survive. So, in order to create the resources to keep that stress response going, all your hormones have the same building block. And so your stress response is going to kind of commandeer those building blocks and so you may notice an exacerbation of symptoms that you would see in menopause, more intensely and aggressively when there’s significant stress. So I think, getting stress under control because you can’t get rid of it, but learning how to work with it, learning how to be okay with the uncertainty and the discomfort, which I’ll tell you is hard to do on your own, which is why this is what I spend most of my time working with women in terms of equipping them with tools to do this.
Katie (16:40):
To coach them. That makes so much sense. So, if someone’s incorporating one-on-one coaching with you or a doctor or if they’re working on stress mitigation techniques—which there are so many wonderful ones, yoga, meditation, being outdoors, those are all phenomenal. What about, do you ever recommend medicines? Or are there sort of homeopathic solutions that you might recommend sort of bolstering the coaching with?
Keira(17:09):
Yeah, absolutely. So, there are certain supplements that could be very helpful. I think first of all, before we exchange a prescription pill for a supplement pill, again really looking at how they’re moving, how they’re eating, how they’re sleeping, what factors may be getting in the way and de-cluttering that first before we pile on a bunch of pills. But there are certain supplements, like magnesium or some of the adaptogens—like ashwagandha, holy basil, Rhodiola—that can really help our bodies kind of re-equilibrate. Yeah.
Katie (17:49):
Magnesium can be very effective. I remember taking it a couple of years ago when I had a low magnesium level and I remember reading something about how you shouldn’t take it if you’re driving at some points because it really helps knock you out for sleep, which I found surprising. I know, obviously, this is a case-by-case basis, you need to check with your doctor. I was given the advice to take it and I found it very helpful with getting to bed.
Keira (18:15):
Yeah, absolutely.
Katie (18:15):
So if anyone’s sort of struggling with that, could be something to ask your doctor and get your levels tested. I’m curious about things that I know plague some of the friends that I talk to. Or I look at my own hands, things like you know, some of the other physical changes to our skin that come with menopause that can be upsetting. It starts to wrinkle, it starts to discolor, we start to get baggier eyes and things of that nature. What are some recommendations that you make—and I’m sure this is all impacted by menopause and age—but what would be some recommendations that you would make to fix some of those challenges that are making it hard to look in the mirror and feel like… Inside I feel 26, but when I look in the mirror sometimes I’m like, "Huh, this could look a little different.”
Keira (19:03):
Yeah, yeah. Just as I mentioned you know, as estrogen is diminishing and plays such a significant role in collagen formation and that hyaluronic acid production, you will notice as it diminishes that the skin may be a little bit saggier, a little bit thinner, a little bit drier. And so that can happen naturally. So, what can you do? A lot of it is prevention, right. And it goes back to lifestyle factors. Beauty sleep is real. What can you do to help optimize your sleep? Putting a hard stop on our time on our devices, a couple of hours before we go to bed, or wearing blue-blocking glasses, keeping alcohol… I always make a joke, I’m like listen, I like a glass of wine or a cocktail but we might have to start, you know, day drinking [Katie laughs] because it really does mess up your sleep.
Katie (20:01):
It totally does. Especially wine I think with all the sugar.
Keira (20:04):
Yeah, and it definitely interferes with sleep cycles. I always start with what are the simple things that we can do? And sleep is one of the things that doesn’t always come easily for us women transitioning to menopause because of hot flashes and other things. But hot flashes, warm rushes, there are things in our life that we’re doing that are making those worse. So kind of being a detective of what we can eliminate; are there some modifications that we can make to our diet, adding fat, fiber, and protein to all our meals and keeping them balanced so you don’t have this blood sugar spike and dip that’s going to jolt you awake at night because that’s a stress response.
And the reason why that’s so important is your skin rejuvenates at night. It’s only when we sleep that we produce melatonin and melatonin is one of the most potent antioxidants that our body can produce. It is so potent, there are studies during the height of COVID looking at melatonin to help boost immunity, they’re using it as adjuvant therapy for cancer treatment; breast cancer, lung cancer, skin cancer. And your body produces this naturally and so it helps repair the DNA damage that you are incurring every day from air pollution, UV exposure, and so prioritizing your sleep so your body can actually heal itself is so important. So, that’s number one.
Number two, 90% of visible signs of aging are from ultraviolet exposure. So yes, if you live in a place like I do where the sun isn’t always shining, don’t kid yourself, you’re still getting sun exposure 365 days a year. Upwards of 80% of UV rays penetrate those clouds. In fact, UVA rays, those aging rays, penetrate your window glass. So, if you’re like me, sitting in my office with my desk in front of the window, I’m getting sun exposure while I’m inside. And on top of that, sitting in front of my computer with the blue light. And we know blue light can also contribute to pigmentation and can affect collagen and elastin. So, wearing a tinted moisturizer that has SPF 30 or above, even while indoors is beneficial, because the tint, the iron oxide in the tint will help block the blue light.
Katie (22:19):
This is so fascinating. I keep hearing about blue light and I think about blue light glasses and reading with them at night so it doesn’t interfere with your sleep, but I don’t think I’ve ever heard someone say that I should be paying attention to that when I’m sitting at my computer and this is such a good tip, I love that. Because we do hear about the importance of sunscreen and I’m curious, so SPF 30, is that what we should be aiming for?
Keira (22:42):
At a minimum, at a minimum, yeah.
Katie (22:43):
At a minimum, okay.
Keira (22:45):
So the other thing too is I use a product that I love because it has hyaluronic acid, it’s tinted, and so yeah, I’m wearing sunscreen when I’m indoors, but it kinda serves as my foundation. I don’t really wear makeup, so it kinda just evens out my skin tone and just makes me feel like I’m “dressed” even though I’m not, just by wearing my moisturizer. [laughs]
Katie(23:07):
Yes. I have taken that on. I have very, very freckly Irish skin and I have been a big sunblock user my whole life and very low, I don’t have an organized makeup routine, honestly, because I’m too lazy. But a few years ago I did start using a tinted moisturizer with SPF in it and I absolutely love it for exactly all the reasons you outlined. You feel a little bit glowy, you look a little bit polished, and I know that it’s you know, it’s giving me the SPF I need just to walk around.
I want to ask you a question before I lose track of my thought on this. You were mentioning the importance of melatonin which our body produces naturally as we sleep. Can we derive the same benefits from melatonin supplements or are those separate? You need to sleep. Tell me about the difference.
Keira (23:51):
Yes, so as we mature, the melatonin is produced in a gland called the pineal gland and we naturally produce less as we are getting older and so that can contribute to sleep challenges. When we take melatonin as a supplement unless you’re taking it at super-high doses—and this is what was being studied with COVID and for cancer therapy—the 0.5 mg to upwards of 3 mg that are in over the counter supplements are what you can get, that won’t likely have the same benefit as the super-high doses and what your body naturally produces, but it will help ease you into sleep. The challenge when you take melatonin as a supplement, some people don’t tolerate it very well. They wake up feeling hungover or groggy and have very vivid dreams. So, often times when I’m recommending any sort of supplement for sleep, I’m really focusing on helping to balance that stress response more with adaptogens, things like magnesium, like you said, for magnesium for sleep. I take magnesium every night with my progesterone, [laughs] it’s like the two together just knock me out.
Katie (25:06):
That sounds like a great 1-2. Everyone who is listening is like, give me that. [both laugh] I’m telling you, the menopause sleep issues are no joke, I’ve talked about them a lot on this show. Life is crazy, there’s a lot going on in the world right now, it is stressful, feels overwhelming at times and it definitely can interfere with your good night’s sleep. So, I really love talking about sleep on this show because I feel it is the cornerstone to health and sanity and it makes everything else work better, and now that you’ve told me that it’s so important for my skin I’m gonna be even more committed to it. So, you mentioned adaptogens just a minute ago. Can you tell our listeners what is an adaptogen and where might they find them? Since they sound important. [laughs]
Keira (25:56):
Yeah so adaptogens, essentially they help your body adapt to stress and kind of regain what we call homeostasis— a balance, helping your body function as it was intended. And so examples of adaptogens are herbs like ashwagandha, holy basil, Rhodiola, other ones that I’m thinking of in my favorite combination are lemon balm, magnolia. They really help your body feel calmer, at ease. And it’s not quick, you don’t just take it once and it works. Kava sometimes can have a more immediate effect, but it’s something that you take usually it’s a twice-a-day supplementation, and it’s over a course of several weeks, three, six, eight weeks that you really start to notice. Because your body isn’t like an on/off switch. It takes time to kind of get back in balance. So, for anyone who is interested in experimenting, number one I would do it under the guidance of someone who is familiar, like, your physician, or an integrative medicine practitioner. But also know that taking it a couple of times and you’re not feeling anything, don’t give up. It’s not intended to be a quick fix.
Katie (27:20):
Gotcha. I love that, yeah, sticking to beauty routines. We talked a little bit about what to do for healthy glowy skin. You sort of segued into this, when do you do it? So, you’ve talked about the importance of having a consistent routine when you’re trying something new, to repair your skin or to pull adaptogens into your life, to sort of reset your hormones. For those of us who are listening right now who thought, you know, “God I remember the ‘80s when I had all the Coppertone oil and I was baking away," is it too late to be making changes to our skin right now? Most of my listeners are in their mid-forties, fifties, sixties. Do we need to continue to keep maintaining? Is there a point where sunblock becomes irrelevant? Talk to me about when you can do interventions that will make a difference?
Keira (28:14):
Right now. [both laugh]
Katie (28:17):
Everyone stop listening, I want you to [both laughing] run and apply some sunblock, run and apply some sunblock right now.
Keira (28:26):
[laughs] You know, it’s never too late. Here’s the thing, I said that you know, SPF is not your BFF, it is one of your friends in your inner circle, but you cannot have it be the only thing. It’s part of your sun protection strategy because studies have shown that the vast majority of us put on 25 to 50% of the recommended amount of sunscreen. So, those individuals who are like, “I don’t wanna wear sunscreen because it’s gonna block my vitamin D.” I’m like, listen, if you put on the sunscreen like they say to do in the studies, I hear you. It has been shown that it can decrease Vitamin D production but not shut it down. But the reality is most of us don’t put on enough, nor do we re-apply it after two hours like it’s recommended. You’re still getting UVB exposure. That being said, based on your latitude, longitude and how much time you spend outside, the vast majority of us are still not getting enough exposure to generate the optimal levels that we need for Vitamin D production. So, most of us, after you test your levels, will still need Vitamin D production.
Katie (29:37):
Yeah, I’ve doubled up on my Vitamin D too because of exactly that. I live in the Northeast, at different times of year we don’t get enough sun and I know it’s really important as a health aid and combatting a little bit of the effects of COVID as well. We’re not getting into COVID, we’re here to talk about skin but Vitamin D is obviously important.
So, you said SPF is not your only BFF. What are some of the other BFFs, are we talking hats and sunglasses? What else can we do?
Keira (30:05):
Yeah when you are outdoors and in the sun, 100%. The Skin Cancer Foundation says that clothing is our number one line of defense. And this is why one of my detours along the way was making prototypes for sun protective clothing for our kids because good habits start young. If you cover the vast majority of your body with clothing when you’re outdoors, you don’t have to put the sunscreen on, especially if you’re concerned about chemicals and absorption and all of that. Hats, sunglasses, clothing, seeking shade, getting outdoors earlier in the day or later in the afternoon, early evening, so the sun is not as intense.
But from the inside out, really focusing on some of the things that we’ve talked about. Sleep being number one. How do you talk to yourself when you look in the mirror, are you beating yourself up? How are you handling your stress? Who are you spending your time with? Are you adding pleasure into your day? I’m telling you if you don’t put pleasure first, you’re gonna try and be filling the void with something else; overeat, over-drink and those things with wreak havoc on your skin; sugar, dairy, all the things. For those of us who are more sensitive to dairy especially, inflammation. So, it all boils down to lifestyle habits and then when you go outside all the other things.
Katie (31:27):
It’s so interesting because I think our culture has trained us to think there are quick fixes and that you can produce stunning skin if you buy a $150 bottle of something. And every once in a while—I feel pretty self-confident and I feel mostly good when looking in the mirror, that type of thing—but every once in a while when I’ll look in, I’ll be like, “Ahh looking a little rough.” I realized it’s because I’ve been out for a few nights and I’ve had some wine with friends and I haven’t prioritized sleep. It’s so much more tempting to think if I spend $150 on a bottle of something versus going to bed and saying no, [both laugh] but you realize actually just getting into bed early, drinking water for a few nights, and exercising actually makes you look better. It’s not always fun, but it’s something that’s so important to do.
This is making me think of something that I saw on your Instagram. And by the way, I’m going to put Dr. Barr’s Instagram into the show notes because she shares a lot of really wonderful tips and advice on it. But on your Instagram, I saw you making a homemade green clay mask and I absolutely love that because as I was just saying, many skincare products and formulations are super, ridiculously expensive. So, I’d love to hear your take on this. What can we, as listeners, can we do a DIY on? And on the flip side, is there anything that’s worth investing in that’s a product?
Keira (32:56):
Yeah, great question. And that idea of investing $150 on some fancy super serum it’s like, think about what you can invest in yourself. Time and care and attention. I mean, that’s priceless. And every once in a while, there are some really great products out there. I think other than a great tinted moisturizer with sunscreen, SPF 30 or above, on the daily, a great anti-oxidant serum that has at least Vitamin C, Vitamin E. There are some that also incorporate things like lycopene or resveratrol, grape-seed extract that can help bolster the skin as well. But an anti-oxidant has Vitamin C and E because those two vitamins work synergistically to help combat the free radicals that are produced when we’re exposed to air pollution and UV exposure. So, that is a product that is—
Katie (33:54):
Those are worth investing in. And do you have any specific ones that you recommend? I don’t want to put you on the spot but if there’s some…
Keira (33:59):
Yeah, I don’t have any affiliations with any companies but some that I’ve tried that I like is Marie Veronique, it’s been formulated in collaboration with an aesthetician who has such a holistic approach to things, she’s lovely, and they just feel yummy on your skin. Because sometimes these products can burn and feel a little bit uncomfortable, but I do like that one.
Katie (34:22):
Nice, okay. I’ll get that spelling from you and put that in the show notes as well. And what can we DIY? I’m gonna put your green clay mask into the show notes as well.
Keira (34:30):
[laughs] I think I did that one with my daughter.
Katie(34:32):
So fun, so fun.
Keira(34:34):
Yeah, I did a plant medicine course deep in the forest of New Mexico with an amazing mentor and really kinda got me into having fun in the kitchen. So yeah, one of the masks, it was a goat’s milk powder, green clay and like a little bit of water and it was just so soothing. And different oils like, I’ll make my own age embracing serum, we don’t want to say anti-aging serum, but with pomegranate seed oil and raspberry seed oil and just concocting things. Honestly, you can google whatever you’re looking for, you will find it, it can be really simple.
Katie (35:12):
Nice.
Keira (35:18):
Really, really simple. But there are some great companies online, again, no affiliation whatsoever, but I get a lot of my DIY stuff from Mountain Rose Herbs in Oregon because they have organically sourced materials.
Katie (35:31):
Fantastic. It’s a fun thing to do with your daughter.
Keira(35:34):
Oh, totally.
Katie (35:34):
Maybe do with a group of girlfriends or just spend on a Sunday night as you’re getting ready to wrap the weekend and start your week it’s fun to sort of “Self-care Sunday" type thing, get in the kitchen and mix something up that you can use.
In a minute we’re gonna be heading into a speed round because our time is ending but before we do that, I did want to ask you a little bit about what your own skincare routine is. Are you one of these sort of low frills, or because of your work do you have something that’s sort of complicated? What do morning and evening routines look like for you?
Keira (36:13):
I love this question. I am the least frilly dermatologist. I still don’t really even know how to do my hair and makeup. I tell you, my 17-year-old, thank god for YouTube. When I have to go out somewhere, she’s doing my hair, she’s doing my makeup. Anyway, it’s really simple because the more complicated it is for me, the least likely I am to do it.
So, three steps in the morning, three steps in the evening. Sometimes there maybe one or two extra steps. But just a gentle cleanser, followed by anti-oxidant serum, followed by my moisturizer with SPF for the morning. Evening, very similar; cleanse, apply a second round of the anti-oxidant serum, I do apply a topical retinoid because retinoids, Vitamin A derivative, they help skin cell turnover, they help promote collagen formation, they really help mitigate that dull cell complexion and as we’re maturing, skin cell turnover isn’t working as efficiently as it used to, so having a gentle exfoliative agent on a consistent basis. And then every once in a while I will do like a true exfoliative mask or something, every one to two weeks. And then after the retinoid, because a topical retinoid can cause a little dryness a little irritation and it does make you more sun-sensitive the next day, all the more reason so protect your skin with the SPF moisturizer, I sometimes will mix the topical retinoid with a little moisturizer itself so that it’s a little bit more nourishing and less irritating.
For those individuals who cannot tolerate a topical retinoid or retinol, which you can get over the counter, is using the ingredient bakuchiol, and bakuchiol has been around for a long time, but really has been popularized in the last couple of years in many of the beauty products because there were head-to-head studies done with bakuchiol that show the efficacy was very similar but bakuchiol has the benefit of not creating that redness, irritation, and sensitivity that a topical retinoid does.
Katie (38:16):
Oh, fantastic. Because I use those topical retinoids and I get a little red so I agree with that. All right, this has been chock full of so many great tips and pieces of advice. We’re gonna close with a quick speed round and share even more. So, this is sort of just a yes or no, or one to two-word answer, okay? Are you ready?
Keira (38:34):
I’m ready.
Katie (38:35):
All right. So I totally wanna know the answer to this by the way, which goes on first, sunblock or moisturizer?
Keira (38:43):
Mmm [Katie laughs] well I’m thinking I’m using a moisturizer with sunscreen, they’re simultaneous.
Katie (38:50):
What if they weren’t though? What if they weren’t?
Keira (38:52):
I would put your sunblock on last.
Katie (38:56):
Got it, okay. Skincare superhero. The one product that you could not live without.
Keira (39:03):
My SPF tinted moisturizer.
Katie (39:06):
Okay, best budget, or drugstore skin product that you use.
Keira (39:13):
I would say, oh I love my face cleanser, it’s Derma E it’s like an exfoliating face cleanser, it’s like 10 bucks at most.
Katie (39:24):
Nice. Mine is Eucerin, I love that from the drugstore. I don’t even know if I should be using that. Okay, supermarket superhero. What is the best food for healthy skin? You can name more than one.
Keira (39:36):
Gosh, there are so many.
Katie (39:39):
What’s always in your cart?
Keira (39:42):
Beets, I love beets. Just adding fiber, it helps my GI system and things moving, so keeps things flowing and it has nitric oxide, open up those blood vessels, all the things to make my skin glow.
Katie (39:59):
Okay, first of all, I love that, that was a surprise, I was not expecting beets. But it did make me think of this really delicious and decadent beet hummus that my daughter makes who is a vegetarian. So, I’m gonna find that recipe and put it in the show notes as well, it’s delicious. Okay, most surprising anti-oxidant that we may be overlooking?
Keira (40:19):
Melatonin.
Katie (40:20):
Melatonin. All right, melatonin for the win. [Keira laughs] Favorite stress buster?
Keira (40:27):
Dance party in my kitchen with my disco ball.
Katie (40:29):
[laughs] I love that too. I'm coming and I’m bringing my beet hummus, we’re gonna have some fun.
Keira (40:36):
With our green clay masks.
Katie (40:39):
It’s gonna be very colorful. If I weren’t a doctor I would be a…
Keira (40:45):
TV show host.
Katie (40:47):
All right, I love it
Keira (40:48):
Even though I don’t have a TV show and I haven’t started my podcast yet but that was my dream when I was little.
Katie (40:53):
Very, very fun, it’s a good dream. Okay Dr. Barr this has been so much fun. Before I say the final goodbye, how can our listeners keep following you, your work, learn more about your services, and get your skincare tips?
Keira (41:06):
Yeah, well on Instagram absolutely is a place to find me. I have some resources, especially some guides, “Glowing Skin Guide,” give you a jump start that isn’t just about what you put on your skin. A lot of what we talked about today. Another guide for “7 Ways to Reduce Anxiety in Less Than 7 Minutes” because that is a challenge for us right now with everything going on in the world. And my website, drkeirabarr.com is another great place. My book The Skin Whisperer has a step-by-step process of navigating some of these tips that we’ve talked about today as well.
Katie (41:41):
This has been wonderful, thank you very much for being with us today.
Keira (41:44):
Oh my pleasure, it was super fun.
Katie (41:46):
This wraps A Certain Age, a show for women over 50 who are aging without apology. Join me next Monday when dermatologist to the stars Dr. Rosemarie Ingleton joins me to talk about cosmetic dermatology plus skin products and treatments to address midlife skin concerns.
Special thanks to Michael Mancini who composed and produced our theme music. See you next time and until then; age boldly, beauties.