The Bright Side of Sobriety in Midlife with Suzanne Warye of "The Sober Shift"
Show Snapshot:
Hangovers, fuzzy nights, shame spirals. Have you ever wondered if the life you're craving is waiting on the other side of your wine glass? Alcohol doesn't require a rock bottom to deserve a breakup, says Suzanne Warye, host of The Sober Mom Life podcast and author of “The Sober Shift.” Suzanne quit at 39 after years of drinking. Now, she shares why sobriety isn't about deprivation—it's about reconnecting with who you were before alcohol took center stage. We explore "mommy wine culture," the myth of moderation, why AA isn't the only path, and what happens after you say, "enough is enough." Whether sober-curious or already on your journey, this conversation offers a clear-eyed look at outgrowing alcohol. Cheers to that, beauties!
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Suzanne’s Book:
The Sober Shift: A Modern-Day Guide to Living an Abundant Sober Life
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Quotable:
“We've been taught that unless and until we lose enough to alcohol, we are not allowed to openly question our relationship with it, and we don't qualify for a life without it.”
Transcript:
Suzanne Wayre 0:00
Being able to share this bright side of sobriety, that it has been the ticket to really stepping into who you are and who you were meant to be this whole time can feel like freedom.
Katie Fogarty 0:19
Welcome to A Certain Age, a show for women who are unafraid to age out loud. I'm your host, Katie Fogarty.
Beauties, have you ever woken up hungover or in a shame spiral about what you said or did last night? Have you ever asked yourself, am I drinking too much? Or be honest, rounded down the weekly number of drinks that you are willing to report to your doctor at your annual checkup.
If so, I have a show for you, because the life you are craving might just be waiting on the other side of your wine glass. Joining me as I sit down with Suzanne Wayre, host of the podcast The Sober Mom Life, and author of the eye-opening new book, The Sober Shift. Suzanne champions a radical idea: women can simply choose sobriety and freedom from alcohol because they want more from life, no catastrophe, no rock bottom required.
Whether you're sober curious or already on your journey, Suzanne has tools and guidance to shift your mindset about how alcohol is really impacting your life and what life could look like without it. Forget deprivation, forget a lifetime of FOMO. Instead, get ready for a conversation on why midlife is the perfect time to rethink or let go of what no longer serves us. Welcome to A Certain Age.
Suzanne Wayre 1:44
Thank you so much for having me.
Katie Fogarty 1:48
I am really grateful you said yes. I'm always thrilled when I drop into somebody's inbox and they agree to come on the show. I know from following you on social media, where you've got a really active and vibrant Instagram community, and from, of course, reading The Sober Shift that you woke up with a hangover one day at 39 and decided enough is enough. Right now, it's been five years. Congratulations. You've got a community of hundreds of thousands of sober and sober curious women. You've got a podcast, and now this book. I would love to have you start by walking us through why that morning, why this time was different.
Suzanne Wayre 2:27
Oh, that's such a good question. I think in order to answer that, I have to go back and just share a little bit about my drinking. Because I was a binge drinker in college and in my 20s, and I was a blackout drinker, and I had blacked out many a time. And I think so that morning, it was January 19, 2020. I had just had my third baby three months prior, and so that morning wasn't different for me in my life, but it was different for me in motherhood, because I hadn't been a blackout drinker in motherhood. I really had been nailing moderation, and was really, I don't know, just felt like I had—I want to say successful in big quotes—but really successfully drank like an adult, which in my mind meant no blacking out, and, you know, two glasses of wine. And but that morning, I had the worst hangover I think I had ever had, and I had realized that I nursed my baby in a blackout, and so that, to me, was the final straw. My kids have never seen me drunk. I wasn't a daily drinker, but I realized that that was too much for me and I didn't want to lose any more. I don't know if I realized it that morning. I really just said, I'm done, and then I went on a quest.
Katie Fogarty 3:58
So what came next? How did that quest evolve and unfold?
Suzanne Wayre 4:02
Yeah, so I said, I'm done to my husband. And in my mind, I was like, Oh my God, what does that mean? What are you saying? Don't say that out loud. What is happening? And I really did, from that day on, I just opened my phone and I looked up sobriety in my Audible app, because I've always loved audiobooks, and I found This Naked Mind by Annie Grace, and I started listening to it, and that really kickstarted this mission that I had to find out what alcohol was, because I really, despite drinking it since I was 14-15 years old, I had no idea what it was and how addictive it was. So I wanted to find out what it was, but then I also wanted to hear from other women and their stories about what they had lost to it, because, you know, I hadn't overtly lost something to alcohol. I couldn't point to a DUI or my marriage in shambles or losing custody. But to me, that didn't mean that I hadn't lost anything to alcohol, because I had lost the ability to trust myself, which meant far more to me. And so yeah, I exhausted the list of quit lit written by women. I listened to We Are the Luckiest by Laura McKowen, Quit Like a Woman. All of the classic quit lit books, they all really did contain a more rock bottom story that I could have used as kind of collecting evidence that I didn't, quote unquote, need to quit. Instead, to me, it felt like a warning. It felt like if this is the way you continue, if you continue with this very unpredictable, addictive substance in your life, this is what it could lead to. And so yeah, then I just, I followed that, and I really just was ravenous for any story about drinking, any information about alcohol I could get.
Katie Fogarty 6:17
Well, let's talk a little bit about this myth of rock bottom, because you shared some of the classics. I've had two very wonderful guests on the show, Laura Cathcart Robbins, who wrote the book Stash, amazing. I know she blurbed your book and she wrote the book Stash: My Secret Life in Hiding about her pill and alcohol addiction, and she did really have a bottom and put herself into recovery and dramatically changed her life.
I was also fortunate enough to have Lisa Smith on the show, who wrote the book Girl Walks Out of a Bar about her alcohol and cocaine issues. Again, you know, true bottoms. And these women have powerfully rebuilt their lives and are now holding like a spotlight for other women to sort of light the path to some a different kind of future. But one of the things I think is so powerful about your book is that even though there are stories sprinkled throughout it of women who have really suffered or maybe hit their own personal rock bottom, even if it's not as cinematic, you know, or dramatic. You yourself shared you had this—it wasn't a true rock bottom, but it felt like it to you where you were not—you showed up, not as the mother you wanted to be on that night.
And I think your book really powerfully helps us reframe what rock bottom can be. And I flagged something, a quote where you say, we've been taught that unless and until we lose enough to alcohol, we are not allowed to openly question our relationship with it, and we don't qualify for a life without it. And I would love to hear your thinking about how this sort of myth, this idea, keeps so many women sort of trapped.
Suzanne Wayre 7:53
I think it's actually one of the most genius forms of marketing that has ever been done, because if we believe that we have to be the worst-case scenario before we can openly admit that we have a problem with a very addictive substance, then we have no issue trying to moderate it forever and we have no issue continuing to drink. And I don't think people realize how genius it is and how calculated the alcohol industry is in the way that they have marketed to women and the way that they have really tried to kind of come into our motherhood in the worst and best of ways.
Because, I mean, look at all of the messaging around mothers who are just stressed or frustrated or need a break getting a glass of wine as if alcohol is self-care. They've really infiltrated our minds and our homes in a way that we have believed that we deserve it, that we need it. And it is actually something that is literally killing us. It causes seven types of cancer. It is the third leading cause of preventable death in the United States. And when we take a step back from the fact that we have to wait until it kills us before we can say anything about it, there's something really wrong with that.
So I think rock bottom is really just this idea that we have. We can't leave the party early. We have to continue with this idea that I can be a moderate drinker and I should be able to moderate because everybody else around me is. So I'll just try harder. And really the only thing I needed to try harder at was accepting the fact that alcohol is an addictive substance and it was never meant to be moderated.
Katie Fogarty 10:17
So for people who are listening to this now and might be in the camp of, well, you know, I have a few glasses of wine every week. I'm not sure this really applies to me. What would you say to folks who are in that category of, you know, maybe I'm drinking more than I think I should be?
Suzanne Wayre 10:40
I think I would say, why are you listening to this podcast right now? Or why are you reading a book about sobriety? Because you are likely curious. And I think that if we could do anything with our curiosity, we could give ourselves permission to not have to do sobriety forever. We could just give ourselves permission to take a break. And I think that when we remove the idea that we can never have it again—because that's what I thought.
Once I said I'm done, I thought, oh my gosh, does that mean I can never have it again? And I think just even removing that and saying, you know what, I'm just going to give myself 30 days, 60 days, 90 days, however long you want. And if you need alcohol at the end of that, it's not going anywhere. It will still be there. But if I could ask you one question, it would be, why are you so scared to take a break from it?
And I think for so many of us, we're scared because we realize just how prevalent it is in our lives and we realize that it has become far more of a crutch than we had ever anticipated. And I had to really ask myself that because I was so terrified. I couldn't imagine life without it. And it didn't take me very long to realize that life was so much better without it and that it was never doing anything for me.
Katie Fogarty 12:09
There are a couple of things in the book that really hit me hard. One is you talk about how the liquor and beer industry spends $2 billion a year on advertising and messaging. And I know that there's a lot of mommy wine culture and that's very trendy, but you share statistics about what is happening to women in particular with respect to the fact that alcohol is a carcinogen. And it's actually causing real harm and it's a problem, particularly among women in midlife. Can you talk a little bit about that?
Suzanne Wayre 12:43
Yeah. So I think that we don't talk enough about the fact that alcohol is the only drug that you have to apologize for not using. And I think that that is huge, especially when we're talking about a substance that is literally killing us. It causes seven types of cancer. And when we look at the statistics of women in midlife and the rise in alcohol-related deaths among women, it's staggering. I mean, we're seeing a 85% increase in alcohol-related deaths among women. And when we think about breast cancer specifically, which is one of the seven types of cancer that alcohol causes, we know that even one drink a day increases your risk of breast cancer by 5-9%.
And so when we're thinking about the fact that we are being marketed to in a way that makes us believe that we need this, that we deserve this, that this is self-care, when in reality it is literally causing cancer in our bodies, I think that's something that we really need to talk about.
And I think that midlife is such a critical time for women to be having this conversation because we're at a point where we've maybe raised our kids or we're in the thick of it, and we're starting to think about what's next for us. And I think that alcohol can really steal that from us if we're not careful.
Katie Fogarty 14:12
You also talked about the relationship between alcohol and anxiety and depression. And I know in the book you share some really personal stories about your own mental health journey. Can you talk a little bit about that?
Suzanne Wayre 14:27
Yeah. So I think that alcohol and anxiety and depression are so intertwined. And I think that we don't talk enough about the fact that alcohol is a depressant. And so when we're drinking, we're literally depressing our central nervous system. And so if you are someone who struggles with anxiety or depression, alcohol is only going to make that worse. And I think that what I realized in my own journey was that I was drinking to cope with my anxiety and my depression, but I was actually making it worse.
And so when I stopped drinking, I realized that my anxiety decreased significantly. My depression decreased significantly. And I was able to actually address the root causes of my anxiety and depression rather than just numbing them with alcohol. And I think that's such an important conversation to have because I think so many of us are using alcohol to cope with our mental health struggles, and we don't realize that it's actually making it worse.
Katie Fogarty 15:32
One of the things I think is really powerful about your work is that you're not shaming anyone. You're not judging anyone. You're really just inviting people to think differently about their relationship with alcohol. And I think that's such an important distinction because I think so often when we talk about sobriety or recovery, there can be this sense of judgment or shame. And I don't feel that from your work at all.
Suzanne Wayre 16:03
Thank you. I think that's so important because I think that shame is what keeps us stuck. And I think that judgment is what keeps us drinking. And I think that if we can remove the shame and the judgment from the conversation, we can actually have honest conversations about alcohol and what it's doing to us. And I think that's where the power is. I think that's where the freedom is. And I think that's where we can actually start to see change. Because I think that when we're in shame, we can't change. When we're in judgment, we can't change. But when we're in curiosity and compassion, that's when we can actually start to make different choices.
Katie Fogarty 16:49
I love that. And I think that's such a powerful message. I want to talk a little bit about the practical side of things. So for someone who is listening to this and thinking, okay, I'm curious about taking a break from alcohol or maybe exploring sobriety, what are some of the first steps that you would recommend?
Suzanne Wayre 17:11
I think the first step is just to get curious. And I think that means educating yourself about alcohol. And I think that means reading books, listening to podcasts, following people on social media who are talking about sobriety in a way that feels good to you. I think the second step is to find your people. And I think that community is so important. And I think that finding a community of people who are also on this journey or who are curious about this journey is so important because you don't have to do this alone.
And I think that's one of the biggest mistakes that people make is they try to do it alone. And I think that when you have a community of people who understand what you're going through, it makes it so much easier. And then I think the third step is just to take it one day at a time. I think that we can get so overwhelmed by the idea of forever that we don't even start. And I think that if we can just focus on today, if we can just focus on not drinking today, that's all we need to do. And then tomorrow we can make the same choice again.
Katie Fogarty 18:17
I think that's such practical, helpful advice. And I love the idea of just focusing on today. I think that's so important. I want to talk a little bit about the social aspect of sobriety because I think that's one of the things that people worry about the most. Like, how do I navigate social situations? How do I navigate holidays? How do I navigate events where alcohol is really central to the experience? What advice do you have for people who are worried about that?
Suzanne Wayre 18:47
I think that's such a valid concern because I think that alcohol is so central to our social experiences, especially as adults. And I think that what I have learned is that the people who truly care about you don't care if you're drinking or not. And the people who do care, you have to ask yourself, why do they care? And I think that's such an important question to ask because if someone is uncomfortable with your sobriety, that says more about their relationship with alcohol than it does about yours.
And I think that when we can recognize that, we can stop taking it personally. And I think that in terms of practical advice, I think having a drink in your hand is helpful. I think having a non-alcoholic option that you enjoy is helpful. I think being prepared with what you're going to say if someone asks you why you're not drinking is helpful. And I think also giving yourself permission to leave early if you need to. I think that sometimes we think that we have to stay the whole time, but if you're not having fun, if you're uncomfortable, you can leave. And I think that's okay.
Katie Fogarty 20:03
That's such good advice. And I think the idea of giving yourself permission to leave early is so important. I think we put so much pressure on ourselves to show up in certain ways. And I think that's really freeing to just say, you know what, I'm going to take care of myself and that's okay. I want to talk a little bit about the title of your book, The Sober Shift. Can you talk about what that means to you?
Suzanne Wayre 20:30
Yeah. So the sober shift to me is really about shifting your mindset about alcohol and shifting your mindset about sobriety. I think that we have been taught to think about sobriety as deprivation, as punishment, as something that we have to do because we've hit rock bottom. A
nd I think that the sober shift is really about shifting that mindset to see sobriety as a gift, to see sobriety as freedom, to see sobriety as something that we get to choose rather than something that we have to do. And I think that when we can make that shift in our thinking, everything changes. Because instead of feeling like we're missing out, we start to feel like we're gaining so much. And I think that's where the real magic happens.
Katie Fogarty 21:21
I love that. And I think that reframe is so powerful. I want to talk a little bit about what you've gained from sobriety. You've been sober for five years now. What are some of the things that you feel like you've gained?
Suzanne Wayre 21:39
Oh my gosh, so much. I think that the biggest thing that I've gained is myself. I think that I have really come home to myself in a way that I didn't even know was possible. I think that I have gained so much clarity about who I am and what I want and what matters to me. I think that I have gained so much energy. I think that I have gained so much presence with my kids and with my husband and with my friends. I think that I have gained so much creativity. I mean, I've written a book, I have a podcast, I have a community. These are all things that I never would have done if I was still drinking. And I think that I have gained so much peace. I think that I have gained so much joy. I think that I have gained so much gratitude for my life. And I think that all of those things are worth so much more than any glass of wine could ever give me.
Katie Fogarty 22:46
That's beautiful. And I think that's such a powerful testament to what's possible on the other side of sobriety. I want to talk a little bit about your community, The Sober Mom Life. Can you tell us a little bit about that and how people can get involved?
Suzanne Wayre 23:07
Yeah. So The Sober Mom Life started as just an Instagram account. I started it about a month into my sobriety because I just wanted to share what I was learning and I wanted to connect with other women who were going through the same thing. And it has grown into this incredible community of women from all over the world who are either sober or sober curious. And we have a podcast that comes out every Monday and Friday.
We have The Sober Mom Life Café, which is my membership community where we have peer support meetings five times a week on Zoom. We have a monthly book club. We have retreats. We have a private Facebook group. It's really just this incredible community of women who are supporting each other through this journey. And I think that what I love most about it is that it's a judgment-free zone. It's a shame-free zone. It's a place where we can just be honest about our struggles and our wins and everything in between. And I think that that's what makes it so special.
Katie Fogarty 24:12
That sounds incredible. And I think that having that kind of community and support is so important. I want to talk a little bit about the role of shame in our relationship with alcohol because I think that's something that you address really powerfully in the book. Can you talk about that?
Suzanne Wayre 24:32
Yeah. I think that shame is one of the biggest barriers to people getting help or even admitting that they have a problem with alcohol. And I think that shame thrives in secrecy and silence. And I think that the more we can talk about it, the more we can share our stories, the more we can be honest about our struggles, the less power shame has over us. And I think that's why community is so important because when you hear someone else share a story that sounds just like yours, you realize you're not alone.
And I think that that's when shame starts to lose its grip on us. And I think that in the book, I really wanted to address this idea that we don't have to be ashamed of our drinking. We don't have to be ashamed of our struggle. We don't have to be ashamed of our sobriety. I think that all of those things are just part of being human. And I think that when we can approach it with compassion and curiosity rather than shame and judgment, that's when real healing can happen.
Katie Fogarty 25:39
I think that's so powerful. And I think the idea that shame thrives in secrecy and silence is so important. And I think that's why having these conversations is so critical. I want to talk a little bit about the relationship between alcohol and motherhood specifically because I know that's a big focus of your work. Can you talk about how alcohol has been marketed to mothers and what that looks like?
Suzanne Wayre 26:08
Yeah. I think that the alcohol industry has done an incredible job of marketing to mothers. And I think that they have really capitalized on the fact that motherhood is hard. Motherhood is exhausting. Motherhood is overwhelming. And they have positioned alcohol as the solution to all of those things. You know, it's mommy juice. It's mommy's time out. It's wine o'clock. All of these messaging that makes us believe that we need alcohol to cope with motherhood.
And I think that it's so insidious because it's everywhere. It's on the onesies that we buy for our babies. It's on the wine glasses that we give as gifts. It's in the memes that we share on social media. And I think that we have normalized this idea that mothers need alcohol to survive. And I think that that's so dangerous because motherhood is hard, but alcohol doesn't make it easier. It actually makes it harder. And I think that when we can recognize that, we can start to see alcohol for what it really is, which is not a solution, but actually part of the problem.
Katie Fogarty 27:20
That's such an important point. And I think the normalization of it is so powerful and so dangerous. And I think that we don't realize how much we've internalized these messages until we start to really examine them. I want to talk a little bit about what you would say to someone who is struggling with the idea of letting go of alcohol because they feel like it's part of their identity or part of their social life. What would you say to that person?
Suzanne Wayre 27:52
I think I would say that I totally understand that fear because I felt that way too. I think that for so long, I thought that alcohol was part of who I was. I thought that it was part of my personality. I thought that it was part of my social life. And I think that the idea of letting go of it felt like I was letting go of a part of myself. But what I realized is that alcohol was never part of who I was. It was actually covering up who I really was. And when I let go of it, I didn't lose myself. I actually found myself. And I think that's such an important distinction. I think that we think we're going to lose something, but we're actually gaining so much more.
And I think that in terms of your social life, I think that your real friends don't care if you're drinking or not. And I think that the events and the experiences that matter to you will still matter to you whether you're drinking or not. And I think that you might find that some things don't matter to you as much as you thought they did. And I think that that's okay too. I think that it's okay for your life to change. I think that it's okay for your friendships to evolve. I think that all of that is part of growth.
Katie Fogarty 29:08
I think that's beautiful. And I think the idea that alcohol was covering up who you really were is so powerful. And I think that's something that a lot of people can relate to. I want to talk a little bit about the concept of moderation because I think that's something that a lot of people try. They try to moderate their drinking. They try to set rules for themselves. And I know that you talk about this in the book. Can you share your thoughts on moderation?
Suzanne Wayre 29:37
Yeah. I think that moderation is exhausting. And I think that if you are someone who is trying to moderate your drinking, I think that's a sign that you probably have a problem with it. Because I think that people who don't have a problem with alcohol don't spend a lot of time thinking about how much they're drinking or when they're drinking or setting rules for themselves. I think that moderation requires so much mental energy and so much willpower. And I think that ultimately, it's not sustainable for most people.
And I think that what I realized in my own journey was that I had spent so much time and energy trying to moderate my drinking. And when I finally just let go of it completely, I realized how much space that freed up in my brain for other things. And I think that that's what I would say to anyone who is trying to moderate is just ask yourself, how much energy are you spending on this? And is it worth it? And I think for most people, the answer is no.
Katie Fogarty 30:46
That's such a good point. And I think the idea that moderation is exhausting is something that I think a lot of people can relate to. I know I certainly can. I want to talk a little bit about the physical benefits of sobriety. What have you noticed in terms of your physical health since you stopped drinking?
Suzanne Wayre 31:11
Oh my gosh, so much. I think that the first thing I noticed was my sleep. My sleep improved dramatically. I think that I had always thought that alcohol helped me sleep, but what I realized is that it was actually disrupting my sleep. And so when I stopped drinking, I started sleeping so much better. I think that I also noticed that I had more energy. I think that I noticed that my skin looked better. I think that I noticed that I felt healthier overall. I think that I noticed that I didn't get sick as often. I think that all of those things are just the physical benefits of not putting a toxin in your body every day. And I think that it's amazing how quickly your body can recover when you stop drinking.
Katie Fogarty 32:02
That's incredible. And I think the sleep piece is so important because I think a lot of people do think that alcohol helps them sleep. And it's actually doing the opposite. I want to talk a little bit about the concept of being sober curious. Can you explain what that means and how that might be a good starting point for people?
Suzanne Wayre 32:28
Yeah. I think that sober curious is such a great term because I think it removes the pressure of forever. I think that sober curious just means that you're curious about what life could look like without alcohol. And I think that that's a really great starting point for people because it doesn't require you to commit to anything forever. It just requires you to be curious and to explore. And I think that for a lot of people, that can feel much more accessible than saying, I'm going to quit drinking forever. And I think that the sober curious movement has been so powerful because it has normalized this idea of questioning your relationship with alcohol even if you don't identify as an alcoholic or even if you haven't hit rock bottom. And I think that that's so important because I think that everyone deserves to question their relationship with alcohol regardless of how much they're drinking or what their story is.
Katie Fogarty 33:33
I think that's so important. And I love the idea of just being curious and exploring without the pressure of forever. I want to talk a little bit about the tools and strategies that you share in the book for people who are early in their sobriety journey. Can you give us a few examples of some practical tools that people can use?
Suzanne Wayre 33:59
Yeah. So I think that one of the most important tools is to educate yourself about alcohol. I think that knowledge is power. And I think that when you understand what alcohol is doing to your brain and your body, it becomes so much easier to say no to it. I think that another really important tool is to have non-alcoholic options that you enjoy. I think that having a drink in your hand can really help in social situations. And I think that there are so many great non-alcoholic options now. I think that another important tool is to play the tape forward. So when you have a craving or when you're thinking about drinking, instead of just thinking about that first sip, think about the whole night and the next morning. Think about how you're going to feel. Think about what you might say or do. And I think that when you play the tape forward, it becomes much easier to say no. I think that another important tool is to have a plan. So if you know you're going to a party or an event where there's going to be alcohol, have a plan for what you're going to drink, what you're going to say if someone offers you a drink, and when you're going to leave if you need to. And I think that having a plan can make you feel so much more confident and prepared.
Katie Fogarty 35:15
Those are such practical, helpful tools. And I think the play the tape forward strategy is such a powerful one. I want to talk a little bit about what you would say to mothers specifically who are listening to this and who are struggling with their relationship with alcohol. What message do you have for them?
Suzanne Wayre 35:41
I think that I would say that you are not alone. I think that so many mothers are struggling with this. And I think that the fact that you're even listening to this conversation means that you're brave and that you're courageous and that you're willing to look at something that is really hard to look at. And I think that that takes so much strength. I think that I would also say that you deserve to feel good. You deserve to be present for your kids. You deserve to show up as the mom that you want to be. And I think that alcohol is not a requirement for motherhood. I think that motherhood is hard enough without adding a toxin to the mix. And I think that you can do hard things. And I think that if you can grow a human and birth a human and raise a human, you can absolutely do this. And I think that you don't have to do it alone. There are so many resources and so many communities and so many people who want to support you through this. And I think that asking for help is not a sign of weakness. It's actually a sign of strength.
Katie Fogarty 36:48
Yes, and like, systemically, right? But also, like, moms have very real needs, especially post-COVID. And everything we went through, I don't think we've come to terms with all that moms were tasked with and what that took from us. And we have very real needs, and we as a society, our families, our kids, need moms to be okay. And the fact is that if we are being marketed to and very targeted, which we are by alcohol, if we are numbing and escaping and addicted, we're not okay. We are not okay. And that can sound dire and scary. I do think it's scary, but it's definitely not dire, because once we realize and are connected with moms who are finding freedom and sobriety, and realize that we actually can feel those things, we can stare down our shame and share it and work through it. And once we realize that alcohol was never making us a better mom, that we never needed it by just removing one thing, by removing something, not by—you know, we don't need classes to teach us how to be good moms or how to love our kids. We don't need anything more. It's just by removing this one thing that we are the moms that we were always supposed to be. That I think gives a lot of hope. And yeah, that's my mission.
Katie Fogarty 38:21
I think back to my early—my kids are now 25, 22 and 18, and I can still remember how hard it was to be up in the middle of the night, juggling all the things so hard, trying to work, doing this all. And you know, I had a wonderful, supportive family and a community of friends, and it was still so challenging. My husband traveled a lot for work, and yeah, it was really, really tricky. So I have so much empathy for people who are struggling with that. But on sort of the back end of your life, even if your kids age, I am now helping for caregiving for my mom, who has cognitive decline, and that's its own set of challenges and stresses and pressures. And I know that I am one of many, one of millions. We all have these—our country is not built to support people appropriately, and so people are under great, great stress, and it's no wonder that many have turned to alcohol as a support. Yeah, when we're removing that, though, we need to replace alcohol with things, and we need to tap into, I think, the power of community. I feel like I would not survive without my friends. You've created a vibrant community. I'd love to hear a little bit about your community, and I would also love to have this sort of be a two-part thing where you talk a little bit about AA, which I know you share in the book, that you think has done wonderful things for many people, but it is not always necessarily the right choice.
Suzanne Wayre 39:43
So I created a community pretty early on because I had felt just so alone in my drinking and the moderation of it and all of that. I assumed everyone else had it figured out, and I was the only one. And so once I started hearing from women and saying, oh my gosh, me too, like I thought it was just me. I was like, okay, we need to all get together. And we just need a place without shame, without judgment, without labels, where we can just talk. And so much we have—it's called The Sober Mom Life Café. We have five peer support meetings a week. They're on Zoom, and we have a monthly book club, we have retreats, we have a private Facebook page. It's really just a place where moms or women, you don't have to be a mom, where we can come and help each other do this life thing. So much of it isn't about alcohol. We're not really talking about alcohol. You know, if there's someone in early sobriety, we help give tips and check-ins for first sober vacation, or how do you deal with these things? But so much of it is, how do I—okay, my kids are driving me crazy. What do you guys do when your kids drive you crazy, right? All of these tools that we need to hear from other women and from other moms. And as far as AA, I'm always careful because I know AA has helped millions of people, and I would never want to take that away. I only know for me and so many of the women that I have talked to is that it did keep us drinking, the idea that—AA, I thought that was the only way. I thought that unless I could call myself an alcoholic and consider myself powerless to alcohol, and then it felt like living at shadow forever, that unless I could do that, then I didn't need to stop drinking, and there was nothing to see. And so I don't think AA needs more airtime. I think what I'm trying to get people to talk more about is this idea that you don't have to do that. You don't have to go to AA. If you love AA, if it has helped you, that is wonderful. But to know that there are other ways to do this, and you qualify for sobriety, whether or not you are an alcoholic, whether you are actively addicted or not, whether or not you've hit rock bottom. And so that's what I try to do, is just to shine a light on the brighter side, or at least that's how it feels for me.
Katie Fogarty 42:36
Suzanne, now almost six years into sobriety, or like on your—you're heading into your sixth year. How has your relationship with yourself changed?
Suzanne Wayre 42:46
Oh, man, I think that as soon as you asked that I thought about me when I was 14, because I started drinking at 15, and it feels like I have, at the same time, returned to her and then also invited her in to teach me about us, right? To teach me about me at 14, because I think that I have fallen in love with myself again by inviting my younger self back in. And I have not only learned to trust myself, but I have really been able to follow what I used to love and to ask her, okay, how do we spend our afternoons after school? Right, like when it wasn't alcohol? Because I think when alcohol is in the picture, it does take up a lot of room, and it takes up most of the oxygen in the room that we probably don't really know what we like to do. And so I was able to kind of go back to my younger self and say, hey, can you catch me up and tell me what we like to do and remind me? And that has been the most healing, because I've also been able to through that, I've been able to really heal the things that have happened in the past 30 years when alcohol did come in, and she has helped me with that. So I know it's weird I'm talking about myself in the third person, but it really does feel like that.
Katie Fogarty 44:19
It's such a lovely, lovely way to think about sort of reaching backwards and pulling her forwards, but also sort of coming home to yourself. So I think that is such a gorgeous note to end on. But before we wrap up, I did want to thank you for this conversation, and I flagged one last quote from your book where you say alcohol wears many masks, but the fact remains, it is an addictive, toxic substance that will take far more than it gives, no matter how you spin it. So thank you for writing that sentence, for being with me today to help us reframe and rethink about how alcohol shows up in our own life. I know you've given me a lot of food for thought, and I want to congratulate you again, and thank you for being a voice, you know, an advocate for culture change on this topic. Thank you so much. Before I say goodbye, though, I would love for you to share with our listeners how they can find you, learn more about your work, learn more about The Sober Mom Life Café and where they can get their hands on your book.
Suzanne Wayre 45:17
Yeah, so you can get the book anywhere you buy books. I also narrate the audiobook, and so I've been hearing a lot of great things about that. You guys like to listen to my dulcet tones, apparently. So thank you for that. You can go to SuzanneWayre.com. That's where you can find pretty much everything. The Sober Mom Life podcast, we have episodes every Monday and Friday, and then The Sober Mom Life Café is my community, and I am always on Instagram at Suzanne Wayre.
Katie Fogarty 45:48
Thank you, Suzanne. This wraps A Certain Age, a show for women who are aging without apology. Beauties, this episode is all about the magic of podcasting. I can grab my mic, you can pop your AirPods in, we can both have and listen to a conversation with a woman that changes the way you think.
I so enjoyed this conversation with Suzanne. Her book The Sober Shift is so thought-provoking. I pinch myself that every single week I get to connect with women who change the way I see myself, who changed the way I see midlife. This was a phenomenal show. If you agree, if you learn something, if you feel more inspired, or if you are rethinking your own habits in your own life, I would love to hear about it in an Apple podcast or Spotify review, because reviews help other women find the show.
Thank you for sticking around to the end of another phenomenal conversation. We have incredible shows all month long. We're talking to women who are giving you tools, inspiration and ideas for making the most of your 2026. Special thanks to Michael Mancini, who composed and produced our theme music. See you next time and until then, age boldly, beauties.