What's the Deal with Estrogen Skincare Products? Anne Fulenwider Explains
Show Snapshot:
Your expensive serums aren't working like they used to—and there's a scientific reason why. Understanding what's actually happening to your skin in perimenopause is the key to finding products that deliver real results. Meet Anne Fulenwider, former Marie Claire editor-in-chief who left magazines to co-found Alloy Health, which offers menopause telehealth and buzzy prescription-strength estrogen skincare. Get ready to upgrade your beauty bag! We explore: Why estrogen is the "original biohack" for skin and overall health. Why did it disappear from beauty products? How do we add it to our routines? Plus, Anne shares her reinvention story and her viral essay about the parallel roller coasters of perimenopause and empty nest. Tune in for real talk, skin care fun, and ideas for upping your glow!
SPECIAL CODE: Get $25 off a first time purchase at myalloy.com with code ACA25.
Show Links:
Follow Anne:
Anne’s Grown & Flown Article:
Quotable:
“If you're not talking to women about estrogen at this phase of their life, then you're really doing them a disservice.”
Katie Fogarty 0:00
Welcome to A Certain Age, a show for women who are unafraid to age out loud. I'm your host, Katie Fogarty. Beauties, you know how much we love a reinvention story here on A Certain Age, and when that reinvention includes launching a menopause care company, we are so here for it. Please meet Anne Fulenwider, a woman who has spent her career at the intersection of culture, influence, and now revolutionary change in women's health. Anne's editorial fingerprints are all over some of the most influential publications of our time, from her decades shaping voices at Vanity Fair to her tenure as editor-in-chief of both Marie Claire and Brides. She's been a Pulitzer Prize judge and mentor on Project Runway, and a curator of literary excellence at the Paris Review. But it was a personal loss that sparked her most important chapter yet. As co-founder and co-CEO of Alloy Health, Anne is leading a movement to transform how we think about women's health as we age, because she refuses to accept that suffering in silence is just part of the deal. Anne, welcome to A Certain Age.
Anne Fulenwider 1:12
Thank you so much, Katie. I'm so glad to be here.
Katie Fogarty 1:15
Well, I am really thrilled because I've had the pleasure of interviewing your co-founder, Monica Molinar. I've gotten to interview your chief medical advisor, Dr. Sharon Malone. I even interviewed your community manager Rachel Hughes back before she joined your team. So it's really fun to round out this conversation. I have followed your career for years, and I'm really excited for this. Thanks so much, Katie, me too. But I know that in your magazine days, you were known for challenging beauty standards and really elevating women's voices and stories. And I'm curious as a starting point, how are you applying that same lens to how we reshape how we talk about menopause and women's health as we age?
Anne Fulenwider 1:54
That's such a great question. I think certainly the lens has shifted. But at Marie Claire, when I was editor-in-chief, we were just always looking for those stories that really showed women as they are, authentically, and telling the not obvious story, and really trying to highlight women who stood out for being themselves, breaking the mold, doing fascinating, interesting things. And that's really how I ended up covering a whole bunch of entrepreneurs myself, actually. But I think when we moved from—when basically my mother died really suddenly, and it really made me think about what I want to do the rest of my life, and how, you know, a little bit how everything is fleeting, and also that I wanted to kind of roll up my sleeves and get into women's lives in a more hands-on way. And while we were giving lots of great advice at Marie Claire and I think also modeling some really great stories of women doing great things, it was really wanting to get in and actually help women, from the inside out, get into the health piece of it, and really see what we could do to improve women's lives. And so this feels a little more meaty and hands-on, I would say.
Katie Fogarty 3:08
You're telling stories that were sort of about women who are breaking the mold. You're now helping to sort of break some of the taboo and stigma around menopause care, put tools, resources in women's hands. I know from interviewing Monica that she too was really galvanized in this journey by her own personal healthcare challenge, and that you two built a company to offer the care that you couldn't really find when you needed it. So I would love it as a starting point, if you could give us a quick snapshot of some of the services and products that you offer, and then, of course, we're going to do a deeper dive into one of your buzziest, most intriguing products, your estrogen-based M for Skin Care collection. Yeah.
Anne Fulenwider 3:47
So when I left Marie Claire to join Monica and launch Alloy, I thought we were going to do a content nutrition site. And I think Monica thought that as well. But then for women in midlife, and when we really dug deep into what is going on and why people are so confused and suffering in this perimenopause and menopausal phase, we realized that if you're not talking to women about estrogen at this phase of your life, then you're really doing them a disservice. And there was so much misinformation and scary news out there about estrogen that we've really dug into and realized that there was sort of a whole generation of women that did not get access to this very safe FDA-approved, you know, 80 years of safety data, first-line treatment for menopause, which was hormone therapy. And so what we realized is we had to give women access to that, and in that case, we needed to find some doctors, and we needed to connect to a pharmacy, and it became a much bigger business. But so we really always have menopause care and solving the acute symptoms of menopause at our core. But the thing is, as many people know now, once you do take estrogen, and there are other things you can do as well, but for most women—for the vast majority of women—estrogen is the safe and effective and best way to treat your symptoms. So after you feel like yourself again, you're back to feeling great, you kind of think, well, wait, my hair is kind of thinning, and I can't lose this 20 pounds, and I would like a better sex life. And my skin is looking—it's, you know, my usual skin routine isn't working. And why is that? And so we started layering in other products and services on top of that, really listening to our customers and asking them what they needed, and hearing what else is bothering them. And so our real offering is that connection to a menopause expert physician. When you are a customer of Alloy, you have that connection for the entire time. She's just a text away. You log on to your secure portal, and you message your question, and she'll get back to you, usually within 12 hours. And you can talk to her about anything at all that's bothering you, or, you know, say, I think maybe I need a higher dose of this, or my weight's starting to bother me, or what's going on with my skin? It's really creepy and dry. And so we've sort of built out concentric circles of offerings based on the core of what the midlife woman is suffering.
Katie Fogarty 5:58
I love hearing that sort of backstory that you thought you would start in one direction, and maybe you'd be a nutrition and sort of wellness company, and that you evolved as you learned more about what women were dealing with, and that you sort of kept going with your product offerings and your service offerings. So I think that's kind of a big theme of this podcast, is that you don't need to know how things are going to end to get started. So I love hearing that you started in one place and sort of moved to another in response to really what you're hearing from your customers. So you mentioned the importance of estrogen. That became clear as you really did your deep dive into this. When I had Monica on the show, she said something that really stuck in my head. She said, we should all be estrogen activists. We should be advocating for it as a tool, having more science around it, making sure it's available to women who are needing it. I know from following you, I've heard you speak, and I've seen you at different events in this space over the years that you consider estrogen to be the original biohack, which I absolutely love. So estrogen has long been recognized for not only its effect on our system, our bones, our cardiac health, our mood, our energy, but it's also been recognized for its remarkable effects on skin. So I would love if you could give us kind of a quick historical snapshot of how estrogen has been used in skincare products beyond your own over the years. What happened? Why did it sort of disappear? And then share the story of why you decided to create a product line that brought estrogen back into the skincare game.
Anne Fulenwider 7:31
I love it. First of all, thank you for the shout-out to Monica. She is one of my favorite people in the world. As is Sharon Malone, another person I really admire. She's brilliant. But yeah, Monica said this to me probably six months after we launched, which would have been 2019 or so. She said to me that she was, you know, in her late fifties, and that we should all be estrogen activists. And at the time, I thought she was crazy. I was like, that's a weird thing to say. We should all be estrogen activists. Now, I'm totally onboard, because I think that estrogen is this profoundly misunderstood hormone. And basically, starting in the early 1900s, we started to really understand how estrogen works. And the fact is, it is everywhere in your body. It is all of your organs. It is your brain, your skin, your bones. It keeps the collagen in your skin, it keeps your bones strong. It keeps your brain firing. It is the thing that keeps you from dying of heart disease. That's why, before menopause, women are four times less likely to have a heart attack than men. Literally, it is a protective factor in there. And without estrogen, we are much more vulnerable to osteoporosis, to heart disease, to Alzheimer's, and our skin looks old, basically. So when you start to lose your estrogen in perimenopause, all of these things start to happen, and none of us really know why. We just think we're aging, but what we're actually doing is experiencing estrogen loss. And so the idea that we can replace that, and that we should replace that in almost every woman, is something that has become crystal clear to me over the last couple years. And actually, the history of estrogen in skincare is pretty fascinating. In the 1940s and 50s, you could walk into any drugstore, and there were tons of estrogen face creams on the shelves. They were sold everywhere. There was one called Estrace. There was one called Hormonex. I mean, I think Helena Rubinstein had an estrogen cream. These were everywhere, and they worked. Women loved them. They would plump up your skin, keep it moist. It was a miracle, basically. But then in the 1970s, the FDA came in and said, hold on a second. We don't know if this is safe. And they pulled them all off the shelves. And since then, there has been, I think, a real fear of estrogen in skincare. But what we know now is that when you apply estrogen topically to the skin, it does not get into your bloodstream in any meaningful way. It stays in the skin, and it works locally. And so we decided to bring it back, because we think it's safe, it's effective, and women deserve to have access to it.
Katie Fogarty 10:28
So it's really interesting to hear that there was this whole era where estrogen was in skincare products, and then it kind of went away. And now you're bringing it back. And I think one of the things that I find really interesting about your approach is that you're not just creating a product, you're also educating women about estrogen, about menopause, about what's happening in their bodies. And I think that's such an important piece of this, because there's so much misinformation out there. So can you talk a little bit about the education piece of what you're doing at Alloy?
Anne Fulenwider 11:09
Yeah, I think that's actually one of the most important things that we do. Because when Monica and I started this, we realized that there was just so much confusion and fear around hormone therapy. And a lot of that stems from the Women's Health Initiative study that came out in 2002, which basically scared a generation of women away from hormone therapy. And that study has since been debunked and clarified, and we now know that for most women, hormone therapy is safe and effective. But that message hasn't really gotten out there. And so we spend a lot of time educating women about what hormone therapy is, how it works, why it's safe, and why they should consider it. And we do that through our blog, through our Instagram, through our emails to customers. We're constantly putting out information. And I think that's really important, because if you don't understand what's happening in your body and why you're feeling the way you're feeling, it's really hard to make good decisions about your health. And so we want to empower women with that knowledge.
Katie Fogarty 12:15
I love that. And I think that's so important. And I know that you have a really strong community of women who are using Alloy and who are talking about their experiences. Can you talk a little bit about that community and how important that is to what you're doing?
Anne Fulenwider 12:36
Oh my gosh, the community is everything. I mean, when we first launched, we had no idea that women would be so hungry to talk to each other about this stuff. But they are. And so we created a private Facebook group for our customers, and it now has, I think, over 30,000 women in it. And they talk about everything. They talk about their symptoms, they talk about their treatments, they talk about their lives, they support each other. It's an incredibly powerful thing. And I think it's partly because for so long, women have been told to suffer in silence through menopause. That it's not a big deal, that you should just tough it out, that it's a natural part of aging. And so to have a space where women can say, no, actually, this is really hard, and I need help, and here's what's working for me, and here's what's not working for me—it's incredibly validating and powerful. And we've learned so much from that community. I mean, they're the ones who told us that they needed help with their hair, and their skin, and their weight, and their sex lives. We didn't just decide that on our own. We listened to them, and we responded to what they were telling us they needed.
Katie Fogarty 14:02
That's so powerful. And I think that's one of the things that makes Alloy so special, is that you're really listening to your customers and responding to what they need. And I know that one of the things that they were asking for was skincare. So let's talk about the M for collection. Can you give us an overview of what's in the collection and how it works?
Anne Fulenwider 14:27
Yeah, so the M for collection—M is for menopause, by the way—is a line of skincare products that we launched about a year ago. And it's specifically designed for menopausal skin. And what that means is that it addresses the specific issues that come up when you lose estrogen. So things like dryness, loss of elasticity, thinning of the skin, crepiness, all of those things that happen when your estrogen drops. And the key ingredient in all of our products is estradiol, which is the same form of estrogen that's in our hormone therapy. But in a topical formulation. And what we've done is we've combined it with other really great skincare ingredients like hyaluronic acid, peptides, niacinamide, things that are proven to work. And we've created a simple routine that consists of a cleanser, a serum, and a moisturizer. And the serum and the moisturizer both contain estradiol. And the idea is that you use these products twice a day, and over time, you'll see an improvement in your skin. And what we're hearing from women is that it really works. They're seeing less dryness, less crepiness, more elasticity, better texture. And it's not magic. It takes time. You need to use it consistently for at least 12 weeks to really see results. But when you do, it's pretty remarkable.
Katie Fogarty 16:02
That's amazing. And I love that you're being realistic about the timeline. Because I think so often in skincare, we're sold these miracle products that are supposed to work overnight. And the reality is, if something is going to actually make a difference in your skin, it takes time. So I appreciate that you're setting realistic expectations. Now, I know that estradiol is the key ingredient. Can you talk a little bit about how it works on the skin? What is it doing?
Anne Fulenwider 16:35
So estradiol, when applied topically to the skin, binds to estrogen receptors in the skin cells. And when it does that, it basically tells those cells to start producing more collagen and elastin, which are the proteins that keep your skin firm and elastic. And as we age and lose estrogen, our bodies stop producing as much collagen and elastin. And that's why our skin starts to sag and wrinkle and lose its bounce. So by applying estradiol topically, we're essentially giving those cells a signal to start producing collagen and elastin again. And over time, that leads to firmer, more elastic skin. It also helps with hydration, because estrogen helps the skin retain moisture. So you get less dryness, and your skin barrier function improves. And all of that together leads to healthier, more youthful-looking skin.
Katie Fogarty 17:40
That's fascinating. And I think that's one of the things that makes this so different from other anti-aging products, is that it's actually addressing the root cause of what's happening to your skin in menopause, which is estrogen loss. So many products just kind of try to cover up the symptoms or hydrate or plump, but they're not actually addressing the underlying issue. So I think that's really powerful. Now, I know that there are some concerns that people have about putting estrogen on their skin. Can you talk about the safety of this? Because I think that's something that people are curious about.
Anne Fulenwider 18:22
Yeah, absolutely. I think safety is the number one concern that people have. And I totally understand that, because there has been so much fear-mongering around estrogen over the years. But the truth is, when you apply estrogen topically to the skin, very little of it gets into your bloodstream. There have been studies that have shown that the systemic absorption is minimal. And so it's considered very safe. And in fact, estrogen creams have been used for decades for vaginal atrophy, which is another symptom of menopause. And those are considered very safe. So we're really just extending that same logic to facial skin. And our products have been tested for safety, and we have a medical advisory board that includes some of the top menopause experts in the country. And they all agree that this is a safe and effective treatment. Now, that said, if you have a history of estrogen-sensitive cancers, like breast cancer, you should talk to your doctor before using any estrogen product, whether it's topical or systemic. But for most women, this is a very safe option.
Katie Fogarty 19:45
That's really helpful. And I appreciate you being transparent about who should maybe be cautious and talk to their doctor. Because I think that's important. You're not saying this is for everyone no matter what, but for most women, it's a safe option. Now, I know that you've been using these products yourself. Can you share your personal experience? What have you noticed?
Anne Fulenwider 20:14
Yeah, I've been using them for about a year now, and I have to say, I'm really impressed. I noticed a difference in probably about six to eight weeks. My skin just felt more hydrated, more supple. And over time, I've noticed that some of the fine lines around my eyes have softened. My skin texture is better. It just feels healthier. And I'm 59, so I've been in menopause for several years now. And I feel like my skin was starting to look really tired and dry. And now it looks more alive. And I'm not saying I look 30, but I definitely look better than I did a year ago. And I feel better about my skin, which is really important. Because when you feel good about how you look, it affects your confidence, it affects how you show up in the world. And so for me, this has been a game-changer. And I hear the same thing from so many of our customers. They're like, I finally feel like I look like myself again. And that's really powerful.
Katie Fogarty 21:32
I love that. And I think that's such an important point, that when you feel good about how you look, it does affect your confidence. And I think that's especially important in midlife, when so much is changing, and you're navigating all of these transitions. And if you can feel good about yourself, that's huge. Now, I know that you also offer other products beyond the M for collection. Can you talk a little bit about what else is available?
Anne Fulenwider 22:05
Yeah, so in addition to the M for collection, we also have products for hair, for sleep, for libido, for weight management. We have a whole suite of products that are designed to address the symptoms of menopause. And again, all of this came from listening to our customers and hearing what they needed. So for hair, we have a supplement that contains biotin and other nutrients that support hair health. For sleep, we have a supplement that contains melatonin and magnesium. For libido, we have a product that's specifically designed to help with vaginal dryness and low libido. And for weight management, we have a program that combines medication with coaching. So we're really trying to be a one-stop shop for women in menopause. Because we know that it's not just one thing. It's a whole constellation of symptoms. And we want to be able to help women with all of it.
Katie Fogarty 23:18
That's amazing. And I think that's so important, because you're right, it's not just one thing. It's all of these different symptoms that are happening at once. And to have a company that can help you with all of them is really valuable. Now, I want to shift gears a little bit and talk about your personal journey. Because I know that you've been in this space for several years now, and you've learned a lot. And I'm curious, what has surprised you most about this journey?
Anne Fulenwider 23:55
Oh, that's a great question. I think what has surprised me most is how much women want to talk about this. I mean, when we first started, I thought, okay, we're going to help women with their symptoms, and that'll be great. But I didn't realize how much women needed a community around this. How much they needed to feel seen and heard and validated. And I think that's been the most rewarding part of this, is seeing women come together and support each other and share their stories. And realizing that this is not just about treating symptoms. It's about empowering women and giving them agency over their health. And that's been really profound. I've also been surprised by how much I've learned. I mean, I knew nothing about menopause when I started this. I was still in my early fifties, and I hadn't even really thought about it. And now I'm an expert. I mean, I can talk about estrogen receptors and hormone therapy and all of these things that I never thought I would be interested in. But I am. Because I think it's so important. And I think women deserve to have this information. And I'm proud to be part of spreading that message.
Katie Fogarty 25:32
I love that. And I think that's such an important point, that you didn't start out as an expert, but you became one by diving in and learning. And I think that's such a great model for anyone who's thinking about starting something new or pivoting in midlife. You don't have to know everything at the beginning. You just have to be willing to learn. Now, I know that you've also been very open about your own experience with menopause and perimenopause. Can you talk a little bit about what that's been like for you personally?
Anne Fulenwider 26:12
Yeah, I mean, my experience has been pretty typical, I think. I started having symptoms in my early fifties. Hot flashes, night sweats, brain fog, mood swings. All the usual suspects. And I didn't really know what was happening at first. I just thought I was stressed or tired or getting older. And then I started doing some research, and I realized, oh, this is perimenopause. And I started hormone therapy pretty early on, which I think made a huge difference. Because I didn't have to suffer through years of symptoms. I was able to get treatment right away. And that's one of the things that I'm most passionate about now, is making sure that women know that they don't have to suffer. That there's treatment available, and it's safe and effective. And I wish I had known that earlier. I wish someone had told me when I was in my forties, hey, this is what's coming, and here's what you can do about it. Because I think a lot of women are blindsided by it. They don't know what's happening, and they don't know where to turn for help. And that's why we're doing what we're doing at Alloy.
Katie Fogarty 27:42
That's so powerful. And I think you're right, so many women are blindsided by it. Because we don't talk about it. It's not something that's discussed openly. And so women don't know what to expect, and they don't know what's normal and what's not normal. And I think that's one of the reasons why your work is so important, is that you're creating a space where women can talk about this openly and get the information and support they need. Now, I want to talk a little bit about your partnership with Monica. Because I think partnerships can be tricky, especially when you're building a business. Can you talk about what makes your partnership work?
Anne Fulenwider 28:29
Oh, I love Monica. She's amazing. I think what makes our partnership work is that we have very complementary skill sets. Monica is a numbers person. She's analytical, she's strategic, she's great with operations and logistics. And I'm more of a creative person. I'm good with storytelling and branding and content. And so we each bring something different to the table. And we trust each other. We respect each other's expertise. And we communicate really well. I think that's the key. We're very open with each other. If something's not working, we talk about it. If we disagree on something, we hash it out. And we're both committed to the same mission, which is helping women. So even when things get tough, and they do, we're aligned on what we're trying to achieve. And that makes all the difference.
Katie Fogarty 29:31
That's great. And I think that's such good advice for anyone who's thinking about starting a business with a partner. You need complementary skills, you need trust, you need communication, and you need to be aligned on the mission. Those are all really important. Now, I want to talk about age for a minute. Because this is a show about aging, and you are in your late fifties now. And I'm curious, how has your perspective on aging changed over the years?
Anne Fulenwider 30:04
Oh, that's a great question. I think when I was younger, I thought aging was something to be feared. I thought it meant losing your looks, losing your energy, losing your relevance. And now I realize that aging is actually a gift. I mean, not everyone gets to age. And as you get older, you gain so much. You gain wisdom, you gain perspective, you gain confidence. You stop caring about what other people think. You know who you are, and you're comfortable with that. And I think that's incredibly powerful. And yes, there are physical changes that come with aging, and some of them are not fun. But you can do things to manage those. You can take hormone therapy, you can take care of your skin, you can exercise, you can eat well. And you can age in a way that feels good to you. And I think that's the key. It's not about trying to look 30 when you're 60. It's about feeling good in your body and being healthy and having energy and being able to do the things you want to do. And if that means taking hormone therapy or using an estrogen face cream, then great. Do it. There's no shame in that.
Katie Fogarty 31:40
I love that. And I think that's such an important message, that aging is a gift, and that you can age in a way that feels good to you. You don't have to just accept decline. You can take steps to feel your best. And I think that's empowering. Now, I want to ask you about your writing. Because I know that you were a writer before you were an editor, and you've continued to write throughout your career. And I recently read a beautiful essay that you wrote for Grown and Flown about taking your daughter to college for the second time. And it was just so moving and honest and funny. And I'm curious, how important is writing to you? And do you see yourself doing more of it in the future?
Anne Fulenwider 32:34
Oh, thank you so much for saying that. Writing is really important to me. I mean, I started out as a writer, and then I became an editor, which meant I was editing other people's writing. And I loved that, but I always missed writing myself. And now that I'm running Alloy, I don't have as much time to write as I would like. But I try to carve out time for it when I can. Because I think it's important to process your experiences and your emotions. And writing is how I do that. And that essay about taking my daughter to college, that was a really emotional experience for me. It was her second time going to college, so I knew what to expect. But it was still hard. And writing about it helped me make sense of it. And I think that's what writing does. It helps you make sense of your life. And so yes, I would love to do more writing in the future. Maybe when I retire, I'll write a book. Who knows?
Katie Fogarty 33:42
I would love to read that book. And I hope you do write it. Because you're such a good writer, and you have so many great stories to tell. Now, in that essay, you wrote about going to Cedar Point, which is this famous roller coaster park in Ohio. And you're not a roller coaster person, but your daughter is. And you went with her because it was important to her. And there's this great metaphor in there about roller coasters and perimenopause and parenting. Can you talk a little bit about that?
Anne Fulenwider 34:21
Oh yeah, Cedar Point. So my daughter is obsessed with roller coasters. She loves them. And I do not. I get nauseous, I get scared. They're just not my thing. But she really wanted to go to Cedar Point on the way to college. And so we went. And it was this really intense experience. Because here we were, the night before dropping her off at college, running around this amusement park, going on these crazy roller coasters. And I kept thinking, this is such a metaphor for everything I'm feeling right now. Because parenting is a roller coaster. Perimenopause is a roller coaster. Life is a roller coaster. There are ups and downs, there are twists and turns, there are moments when you feel like you're going to throw up. And you just have to hold on and ride it out. And also, you have to be willing to do things that are scary and uncomfortable, because that's how you grow. And that's how you show up for the people you love. So yeah, it was a very roller coaster-y experience in more ways than one.
Katie Fogarty 35:43
I love that. And I think that's such a great way to think about it. That life is a roller coaster, and you just have to hold on and ride it out. And also be willing to do scary things for the people you love. That's beautiful. Now, you also wrote in that essay about taking these sort of grainy selfies late at night. And you said they were blurry and imperfect, but they were perfect in their own way, because they captured this moment of the four of you together as a family at this particular phase of life. Can you talk a little bit about that?
Anne Fulenwider 36:29
Yeah, so we were at the beach that night after Cedar Point, and it was late, and we were all exhausted. But we were also really happy. And I wanted to capture that moment. So I took some selfies of the four of us. And they're not great photos. They're blurry, the lighting is bad, we all look tired. But I love them. Because they capture something real. They capture us as we are, in this particular moment in time. And I think that's what I'm trying to do with my life now. I'm trying to capture the moments as they are, not as I wish they were. I'm trying to be present and appreciate what I have, even when it's messy and imperfect. Because it's all going to change. My kids are going to grow up and leave. My body is going to change. Everything is temporary. And so I want to hold on to these moments while I can, even the imperfect ones. Especially the imperfect ones.
Katie Fogarty 37:35
That's so beautiful. And I think that's such an important lesson, to appreciate the moments as they are, not as you wish they were. And to hold on to them, even when they're messy and imperfect. Because those are often the most meaningful moments. Now, you also wrote about how you knew that this wasn't goodbye forever. That your daughter would come home, that you would still be close. But that this particular moment was ending. Can you talk about that?
Anne Fulenwider 38:13
Yeah, I think that's one of the hardest things about parenting older kids. You know that they're not gone forever. You know they'll come home for holidays, they'll call and text, you'll still be in their lives. But the day-to-day relationship is ending. You're not going to see them every morning at breakfast. You're not going to tuck them in at night. You're not going to be there for all the little moments. And that's really hard. But it's also what you've been working towards their whole life. You've been raising them to be independent, to go out into the world and make their own way. And so when they do that, it's a success. It's what you wanted. But it still hurts. And I think that's okay. You can feel sad about it and proud about it at the same time. Those things can coexist.
Katie Fogarty 39:20
Absolutely. And I think that's such an important point, that you can feel sad and proud at the same time. That those emotions can coexist. And I think that's true of so many things in midlife. You can feel excited about the future and sad about what you're leaving behind. You can feel grateful for your body and frustrated with the changes that are happening. All of these things can be true at once. And I think that's something that we get better at as we get older, is holding space for complexity and nuance. And not needing everything to be black and white.
Anne Fulenwider 40:04
Exactly. And I think that's one of the gifts of aging, is that you get better at holding complexity. You realize that life is not simple. It's messy and complicated and beautiful and hard all at the same time. And that's okay. You don't have to have it all figured out. You just have to show up and do your best.
Katie Fogarty 40:28
I love that. That's such a great place to end. You don't have to have it all figured out. You just have to show up and do your best. Anne, thank you so much for being here today. This has been such a wonderful conversation. I've loved hearing about Alloy, about the M for collection, about your personal journey, about your writing. And I just really appreciate you sharing all of this with me and with the listeners.
Anne Fulenwider 40:57
Thank you so much, Katie. This has been wonderful. I really enjoyed our conversation.
Katie Fogarty 41:04
And listeners, just a reminder that Anne has a special offer for A Certain Age listeners. If you head to the Alloy website, you can get $25 off your first purchase by using the code ACA25. So if you're curious about the M for collection or any of their other products, definitely check it out. And Anne, one more thing before we go. You mentioned that you're on Instagram. Can you share your handle so people can follow you?
Anne Fulenwider 41:38
Yes, I'm @annefulenwider on Instagram. And Alloy is @myalloy. So you can follow both of us and keep up with what we're doing.
Katie Fogarty 41:54
Perfect. Thank you so much, Anne.
Anne Fulenwider 42:00
Thank you, Katie.
Katie Fogarty 42:45
It's an empty nest, right? They're like, yes, exactly.
Anne Fulenwider 42:49
So this was, you know, my second year driving show. She started a year ago. And my daughter and I have a lot in common, but what we do not have in common is she has a huge love of roller coasters and thrill rides and amusement parks. And I physically just can't—I can't stomach it, but I also, they're not my favorite places on earth, to be honest. But it was really, really important to her. We're mapping out the journey. She's, you know, we live in New York. She was going to college in Wisconsin, and when you do the map, you realize that halfway through is pretty much somewhere in Ohio. And she was like, ah, we can go to Cedar Point. Cedar Point. It's this world famous—to roller coaster people—actual roller coaster park that has some of the tallest, biggest, scariest roller coasters, I think, in the world. And you know, it was not the place I would have picked for our one stop over on the way out there. But she was so insistent. And so there we were. We found ourselves at this giant roller coaster park the night before we were dropping her off at college. And the metaphor is just too huge. Like, oh my god, the roller coaster of perimenopause, the roller coaster of childbearing and parenting. And so I never really explicitly say, like, hey, look at this, we're on a roller coaster, and this is a roller coaster moment. But the sort of poignancy of the four of us—we have a son who, at the time, was 16. So you know, teenage, somewhat adult children—running around this roller coaster park. Of course, I only made it on three and then I had to lie down. But just really was a fun sort of encapsulation, if that's a word, of all the things I was feeling. And I love, you know, someday, maybe when I retire, if I ever retire, I would love to write. And so it was a really nice excuse to write a personal essay.
Katie Fogarty 44:30
I loved it. I'm glad you loved it. And you included a couple of sort of grainy selfies, and just shared that you had these like blurry selfies that you were taking late at night, that you were sort of running around the beach, and that these were imperfect photos, but they were perfect, that they kind of captured this last moment as a force. I'm at this particular phase of life, because there will be more selfies, there will be more opportunities to be together as a family, but never quite in this way again. And it was just, you know, and I think that's part of the sort of the college drop-off is just like really thinking deeply about how things are changing. It's like you're at an inflection point. And it was just just a beautiful and moving essay, and it really, I was like, cracking up during parts of it, because my family, I'm you, Anne, and my family, to the point that when we went to this like roller coaster flume ride, where you go through the water. It's even worse, it's a roller coaster, and you're getting splashed. And we're five, we're a family of five, so somebody in the family needs to sit next to a stranger. And my daughter was like, Mom can't sit next to anyone that's not related to us, because she's going to scare them. Because I scream. And I was like, oh my God, I feel so seen.
Anne Fulenwider 45:43
Yes, we see you, we hear you. We're here. That's one of the things we say about Alloy: not just in menopause, but also in roller coaster rides. It was really, it really—well, I think the nice thing, again, having perspective, and I wrote it from the point of view of someone dropping their daughter off at college a second time, is that I now know that it wasn't goodbye forever. She comes home all the time. We're still very close, and she's enjoying herself in college. But that, just to your point, that very particular moment that feels so scary and like you might never see your daughter again, or just that sort of she's gone forever, is a real, real experience that everyone has, and then hopefully get through it. But it is a particular moment in time.
Katie Fogarty 46:25
It was such a sweet story, and I'm going to pop it into the show notes when this is live. And listeners can go Google Grown and Flown and Anne Fulenwider and find it as well. And thank you so much for being with me today to give us a little bit of the backstory of your company, what it offers to help people navigate this time. I was so excited to dive into this face cream because I know that listeners are curious, and you inspired me to get—you know I'm going to be less haphazard and more regular. Come check me out in 12 weeks and see if I have the Alloy M for glow. And I love before and afters. I'll put it on my social. And I really enjoyed spending time with you today. Anne has a really wonderful offer for A Certain Age listeners. If you're curious about the creams and other products, you can head to the Alloy website. They're offering $25 off a first-time purchase if you use code ACA25. And you too can share your before and afters on social. Anne, thanks for being with me.
Anne Fulenwider 47:27
Thanks so much, Katie. I really enjoyed our conversation.
Katie Fogarty 47:30
This wraps A Certain Age, a show for women who are aging without apology. I loved hearing Anne's perspective on how age is an asset in building a company, how age gives you perspective and a sense of freedom. Super fun to hear the BTS on how she and Monica teamed up to bring Alloy to the world, to put their products on store shelves. Loved having a dive into the M for skincare collection. I hope it answered the questions that I know that you have. Thanks for sticking around to the end of the show, and as always, thanks for being with me every week. And special thanks to Michael Mancini, who composed and produced our theme music. See you next time and until then, age boldly, beauties.