Six Years of Aging Out Loud! A Certain Age Birthday Bash with Katie Fogarty and Co-Host Wendi Aarons
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Show Snapshot:
Six years of aging out loud calls for the funniest birthday bash yet. Katie flips the script and hands the mic to award-winning humor writer Wendi Aarons (The New Yorker, McSweeney's, author of I'm Wearing Tunics Now), who grills Katie on the health advice she's ignored for six years straight, her most midlife toxic trait, and a fitness confession she's never admitted on air.
In this episode:
Katie's honest answers to Wendi's toughest personal questions, no dodging allowed
Celebrity memoir recommendations worth adding to your list
Why starting your own podcast is more doable than you think
A celebration of six years and listeners in 130 countries (including one very appreciated download from Fiji!)
About Wendi Aarons: Wendi Aarons is an award-winning humor writer whose work has appeared in The New Yorker and McSweeney's Internet Tendency. She's the author of “I'm Wearing Tunics Now: On Growing Older, Better, and a Hell of a Lot Louder.”
Show Links:
Follow Wendi:
Quotable:
Midlife is more fun with friends. And there's so many incredible midlife women... start your own show, start connecting with people, pull people into your life. It's going to be so much richer for it. - Katie Fogarty
I've started leaving restaurants when the music is too loud and I can't read the font size on the menu. So I think I'll just start eating at restaurants that have pictures of the food, so I can point to it. - Wendi Aarons
Transcript:
Katie Fogarty [00:02]
Welcome to A Certain Age, a show for women who are unafraid to age out loud. I'm your host, Katie Fogarty. Beauties, grab your noisemakers and light a candle for the cake, because today is our sixth birthday show. Six years of A Certain Age, and I could not be more thrilled to celebrate with you.
Before we get into the party, I want to say thank you — thank you for six extraordinary years of showing up every Monday, for telling your friends, for leaving reviews, for making this podcast into a real community.
A Certain Age now reaches listeners in more than 130 countries, and this past year we had one download from Fiji. Fiji, time to step it up! None of this happens without you — and without that one listener, one time, in Fiji. You built this with me. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
And now, the best part. You know our birthday tradition by now: we flip the script. A former guest takes over hosting duties, and I get to sit in the hot seat. This year's co-host is one of the funniest women writing today, Wendi Aarons. And fair warning: by the end of this one, you're going to know my most embarrassing fitness confession, the health advice I've been ignoring for six years straight, and what Wendi swears is her most toxic midlife trait. So stick around.
Wendi is an award-winning humor writer whose work appears in The New Yorker and McSweeney's Internet Tendency. She's the author of I'm Wearing Tunics Now: I'm Growing Older, Better, and a Hell of a Lot Louder, and she co-hosts the book podcast It's Pronounced Memoir, where she and her co-hosts dig into celebrity memoirs so you don't have to. We are also Essie-mates — is that a word? I'm making it a word. We both contributed to the anthology Midlife Private Parts. Author, humorist, podcaster, anthology buddy, and a stellar human — today she's in charge of the mic. I am so excited to hand it to her. Welcome back to A Certain Age, Wendi.
Wendi Aarons [01:45]
Thank you so much — that was such a wonderful intro. That's one of those that makes me kind of impressed with myself. I was like, what if I told you I was the person in Fiji? No, it wasn't me.
Katie Fogarty [01:54]
You are impressive. Oh, first of all, I'd be jealous — if you were my one Fiji listener, I'd be like, how can I trade places with you? I would love to be in Fiji.
Wendi Aarons [02:07]
No, it was not me. I was not staying in one of those stilt houses in the water, which I'd love to do, but no, not me. I think the last time I saw you in person was maybe a year ago in New York City — where did we go? We met at the Italian place... Italy!
Katie Fogarty [02:14]
Oh my gosh, all right — bucket list. We were in Italy — but Wendi, I saw you at South by Southwest in March. Obviously it was very memorable, we were at a birthday party together. We went to Gabriela Espinoza's sixtieth birthday party. It was super fun. I guess maybe you had more fun than me, since you don't remember.
Wendi Aarons [02:35]
I know, I know, I know — okay, cut this part out, cut this part out. That was really fun, it was super fun. I don't remember if she had a themed cocktail — themed cocktails always get me. But I have some great questions for you. Let's move on from my memory lapse. Okay, question one.
Katie Fogarty [03:00]
I'm ready. This is two menopausal women, Wendi — there'll be many, many memory lapses, I'm sure, in the next thirty minutes.
Wendi Aarons [03:08]
Okay, I agree, I think so too. All right, number one: what is the most certain-age or midlife thing you've done recently?
Katie Fogarty [03:20]
Oh my gosh, I have such an unsexy answer to this, but I've picked up a chia seed habit. Yeah, right — it's deeply midlife, midlife sexy times. I interviewed two great guests: Dr. Amy Shah, who wrote the New York Times bestseller Hormone Havoc, who talked about the fiber shortage — the average American's diet, and how only about eight percent of us are hitting our fiber goal of thirty grams a day. I also interviewed the wonderful nurse practitioner and host of the Everyday Wellness podcast, Cynthia Thurlow, who wrote the book The Menopause Gut — she also talked about the importance of fiber. So I thought, I don't have time to eat thirty grams of fiber a day, so I've been chia-maxing: throwing them into my yogurt, on my avocado toast, and I actually make chia pudding now — I finally Googled that. This is definitely not something I would have been doing in my thirties. So that's my new midlife thing: chia seeds.
Wendi Aarons [04:24]
Are you growing your own chia seeds? On somebody's head — isn't that the Chia Pets? Is that the same C-H-I-A?
Katie Fogarty [04:26]
Oh my gosh, no, no, no — that's for people with more time. Those are Chia Pets, right? We're both Gen X, so we remember the Chia Pets. That's a good question, actually — I'd assume any kind of seed can sprout, so I'm sure these chia seeds could sprout if I left them, but I'm just dosing them in coconut milk and having them.
Wendi Aarons [04:48]
Well, now — there's a new push to start growing our own produce because of the parasite that's going around. The New York Times just had a big article about how it's time to start growing your own lettuce. I'm like, oh my god.
Katie Fogarty [05:02]
I know! I've actually tried to grow lettuce before, and I was not successful. I'm better at growing zucchini, which took over my garden. But I'm in Manhattan these days, so there's very little space to grow things — although I do have one cute little basil plant on my kitchen windowsill. Lettuce-growing is not in my future.
Wendi Aarons [05:22]
No, nobody's future — nobody wants to do that. If I wanted to be a trad wife... well, I'm way too old to be a trad wife, so I'll move on from that. But my most certain-age midlife thing I've done recently is I've started leaving restaurants when the music is too loud and I can't read the font size on the menu. So I think I'll just start eating at restaurants that have pictures of the food, so I can point to it.
Katie Fogarty [05:51]
I can point to it — that's so funny. Loud restaurants are such a vibe killer. My other midlife thing is I like to make dinner reservations at five-thirty now, or six. If I can be home with my feet up at eight-thirty, getting ready to watch a new episode of Silo, I'm excited.
Wendi Aarons [06:10]
Are there more early reservations available in Manhattan?
Katie Fogarty [06:16]
I think there are, because whenever you get on Resy or OpenTable, they want you to eat at ten-fifteen at night, or four forty-five. So if you want to eat at a hot restaurant, you've got to grab the early-bird special with me. Ten-fifteen? No, that's not happening.
Wendi Aarons [06:31]
Better than 10 p.m., my god. Okay, that was a great answer — I was not expecting chia seeds. Next question: what's something you swore you'd never do that now you absolutely love?
Katie Fogarty [06:51]
I have so many things I thought I'd never do that are now a big part of my life. It's not that I swore I'd never do it — I'm just surprised that I like doing it. I like public speaking. I like being on a stage — leading a workshop, delivering a keynote, emceeing an event. This would have absolutely floored me years ago. I was so nervous about public speaking, hated being on stage, and would have nightmares for weeks before I had to do something like that. So it's something I've really grown into and actually enjoy now — that's surprising to me. The other surprising thing: being Gen X and growing up in New York, I was a high school smoker.
Wendi Aarons [07:35]
That's great.
Katie Fogarty [07:43]
I'd be surprised to learn that I now love yoga, love hiking, love racquet sports — things that weren't on my bingo card back when I was cutting gym with my Marlboro Lights. Some things are better left in the rearview mirror, right?
Wendi Aarons [07:56]
Ha! Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, let's go back to the public speaking — I seem to recall that earlier in your career you were sort of the person behind the speaker. Is that right?
Katie Fogarty [08:14]
Yes. I have a master's in broadcast journalism, but I was never on camera — I was a writer, a researcher, and I had kind of a producing role putting out shows. I used to write the morning news for the anchors to deliver. So it was always more behind the scenes, which is how I liked it at the time. I was offered an on-camera job when I wrote the news at New York One, twenty-six years ago, before my daughter was born, and I just thought, I could never do that. The reality is, I could — I just couldn't do it then, but I can do it now. And I do it, to a degree: I'm on a mic, I'm not on television, but I have appeared on television as someone who gets interviewed, and it's so much more comfortable than I ever would have imagined back then.
Wendi Aarons [09:08]
That's really interesting to me — and you also know what makes for good stage presence, and you're very economical with your words, because you were a writer for that sort of thing.
Katie Fogarty [09:22]
I think what makes good stage presence is being comfortable. And being comfortable isn't something you can teach — you either have it from the start, or you grow into it. For me, I grew into it.
Wendi Aarons [09:37]
Yeah, me too. I'm not on stage as often as you are, but one thing I didn't expect as a writer is that I'd get opportunities to get up and read my work, or be in front of a crowd. My knees used to shake like crazy — I always wanted to be behind a podium so nobody could see them shaking. Now, nothing. I feel the good kind of nervous, like I'm anticipating — but I don't need a beta blocker, I've never done anything like that. To me it's just getting older and more confident: if you like me, you like me; if you don't, I don't care.
Katie Fogarty [10:07]
The excited, anticipatory kind — I love it. Don't knock a beta blocker, though, by the way — I would still use one sometimes when I'm on really big stages. The first time I ever used one was when I was speaking in front of a thousand people, and when I saw that room, I was like, I can't get out there. Beta blockers just keep your body from shaking — you're still mentally nervous, but your throat doesn't shut down.
Wendi Aarons [10:45]
No, no, I'm not knocking it — the physical symptoms, yeah. I would have killed for that twenty years ago. That would have been great.
Katie Fogarty [10:49]
Totally. I learned that from someone who's a Broadway actor and an improv coach — her whole career is built around performing. When she said the word ‘beta blocker,’ I was like, tell me more, I don't even know what that is. Anyhow, people can go Google it if they're nervous about public speaking — it's something you might use at the beginning, until you achieve a comfort level.
Wendi Aarons [11:11]
Yeah, that's great. One thing that's been great for me: I wrote a piece, an open letter to Procter & Gamble about Always maxi pads, that went viral almost twenty years ago. It's since been performed in a show in the UK called Letters Live — Benedict Cumberbatch's show — where they read famous letters. It's usually people like Oscar Wilde and other literary luminaries, and then they trot out my maxi pad letter. It's been performed by Sharon Horgan, Uzo Aduba from Orange Is the New Black, and most recently by Jodie Whittaker, who played Doctor Who.
Katie Fogarty [12:04]
I know exactly who it is, but I can't think of her last name — because, as we've already discussed, we're two menopausal women who can't remember things.
Wendi Aarons [12:06]
Yeah, it starts with a W. But that's kind of me getting up in front of a huge crowd through her — it's not me, so I kind of love it.
Katie Fogarty [12:20]
That's so fun. I'm going to dig up that letter and put it in the show notes so listeners can click over and read it. Wait, Wendi, hang on — it looks like you've stopped recording, you might need to refresh your browser. It might kick you out, but it'll bring you back to the link. Or you could just leave the link and come back — it'll put you right back in, like it never happened. I'll edit the transition, but it just puts you right back into the same link.
Wendi Aarons [13:15]
Okay, so I'll know I need to touch my computer to keep it up. Okay, you ready? All right — this is kind of a leading question, and you can be as honest as you feel, but after interviewing so many experts over these six years, what advice have you completely ignored?
Katie Fogarty [13:24]
I'm ready. Oh my god, this is hysterical, because I've heard so much great advice — I learn something every Monday from every woman who comes on the show. I've incorporated so many cool practices into my life that have really made a difference, from using blue-light glasses for better sleep hygiene, to really prioritizing balance exercises, like brushing my teeth on one leg — Dr. Vonda Wright taught me that, easy hacks to improve balance and stability. So many tips and tricks I've pulled into my day, including chia seeds, as we just covered. But the advice I'm ignoring — and this is embarrassing — is ‘lift heavy.’ I know, what is wrong with me? I had one guest on ages ago, in season one, Renata Joy, who talked about the importance of weightlifting. I promised her I would do it — and I did. I hired a trainer, and I did it, and then I fell off the wagon and haven't gotten back on, even though I've had wonderful guests like Holly Rilinger talk about the importance of lifting heavy, Rebecca Rothstein talk about it with bone health, and Vonda Wright's been on the show three times talking about it. I just can't make myself do it, but I really need to. I'm religious about yoga, and the weird thing is I'm pretty good about eating all the protein, which is supposed to help with muscle building — but since I'm not lifting weights, all I'm experiencing is jeans that won't zip. So I either need to cool it on the protein, or start picking up some weights.
Wendi Aarons [15:10]
That was going to be what I was going to share with you too — I don't strength train, and I heard it five times just last week from experts telling me I need to start. I used to work out at Orangetheory, where there was some weight training — not a lot, but some. Then I bought some weights, and they just kind of sit on my floor. I don't know what it is, I just can't. I need somebody to push me into a gym.
Katie Fogarty [15:51]
It's hard. We can't do all the things. But it's definitely on my to-do list — it falls to the bottom and never gets done. It's something I know I need to make happen one of these days.
Wendi Aarons [16:07]
What's your thought on weighted vests? I know that's gone back and forth.
Katie Fogarty [16:11]
I've read that there's not a lot of great data on it, but I don't know for sure. I actually bought a weighted vest and never did a single thing with it — it sat around for a year, and when it was time for me to move, I was like, out the door with you, off to Goodwill. So I'm not using it, but I think it makes sense — it puts more pressure on your bones, and I think it's probably helpful, even though there's not a ton of great data. I'm not starting there, though — when I pick up weights, it's not going to be a weighted vest, it's going to be actual weights.
Wendi Aarons [16:49]
Well, since I've been talking about this with friends over the past week, of course I'm getting targeted ads about menopause — I know, your phone is spying on you. There's a place in Austin that's a menopause strength gym, where you get a few sessions a week. It looks really good, I could maybe do this — but it's like six hundred dollars a month.
Katie Fogarty [17:13]
You know, there's so much great stuff for free, honestly. I interviewed Jenn Sherman, who was Peloton's first cycling hire — she's a force of nature, super cool. She got hired in her mid-to-late forties by Peloton as their very first hire, which is very cool of them. She shared that it doesn't have to be expensive or hard. And I've heard the same from other experts, like Holly Rilinger and Sadie Lincoln from barre3, who came on the show — sometimes you can do these things at home, just using your own body weight. It doesn't have to be barbells at the gym. You can start small and work up, and it doesn't have to be hard. I need to start listening to all these fabulous women who come on my show and are just trying to encourage me to be healthier, because I'm working on future Katie — being able to pick up my luggage and get it into the overhead compartment, so I can get myself down to Fiji and figure out why people aren't listening to me.
Wendi Aarons [18:10]
When we were together at South by Southwest — which I now remember very vividly — we listened to Dr. Vonda Wright talk, and that really impacted me, that what you're doing now determines how you're going to be as a seventy- or eighty-year-old.
Katie Fogarty [18:30]
Yeah. All right, well, let's poke each other — let's get into like a periodic check-in text. Like, have you done it? Have you picked them up?
Wendi Aarons [18:40]
I'm going to send you Hans and Franz memes, whatever it takes. Okay, my next question — I realize these all have kind of a negative bent, I'm trying to pull out evil Katie — what is your toxic trait in midlife?
Katie Fogarty [19:03]
My midlife toxic trait — it's going to be hard to narrow it down to one, but I've got an idea, and I'll share it with you when we come back from this break. So hang in there — we'll be talking toxic traits in just a minute.
[ AD BREAK ]
Katie Fogarty [19:03]
We're back from the break, and we're getting into all things midlife toxic traits. I'm going to share mine, then I want you to go next. I think my toxic trait in midlife — and this has probably been my toxic trait my whole life — is that I'm always trying to do more things than I should. I sign up for classes I'm excited about, and I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm going to learn YouTube, I'm going to learn X, I'm going to start a second podcast — and I still have trouble recognizing there are only twenty-four hours in a day, seven days in a week. So my toxic trait is really overloading my plate, purely out of enthusiasm, and then not always having the time and bandwidth to manage things the way they should be managed. My YouTube course? I went through it and did nothing with it — I'm not on YouTube. And even my second podcast that I launched, The Midlife Book Club, which was supposed to be once a week — it truly was wonderful, and I had six or seven stellar guests — kind of bumped into some caregiving needs for my mom. It's like a dead houseplant that I really should be watering but haven't thrown away yet, because it's not completely dead. God knows it'd be better if I poured some water on it. So that's my toxic trait: too many things, too little bandwidth.
Wendi Aarons [20:23]
To me, that's not toxic — that shows you're just very curious, and you're making the most of this time you have, without being a full-time mom.
Katie Fogarty [20:31]
Well, that's a very generous reframe. I appreciate it, but we'll see.
Wendi Aarons [20:36]
My toxic trait is asking people how much they paid for their house. It's rude — I should not be doing that.
Katie Fogarty [20:40]
Oh my god, that's a good one. First of all, Wendi, you don't even need to ask them — you just get on Realtor.com and figure it out.
Wendi Aarons [20:47]
Well, yes — that's my second thing. And then my other toxic trait is that I've really started to feel that Gen X, our generation, is so much more superior to any other generation. That's a big internet thing, all the generations fighting — I just have this sense of pride, like, we came up being very self-reliant, and we still are. Of course, I sent my sister out to get an Esprit sweatshirt for me in Sacramento, because they were all sold out here. But I don't want to bash other generations — I do roll my eyes at a lot of them, though.
Katie Fogarty [21:31]
Gen X was very cool — it was and is very cool. It's funny, I've seen this Esprit thing bubble up on Instagram, but I hadn't done the deep dive into why we're all talking about it. When I saw all the Esprit stuff pop up, I remembered being taken to the Esprit outlet with my sister by my father when we were out in San Francisco — my dad was very involved with Democratic politics, and he'd taken us out to the DNC convention. That was his excitement, and our excitement was getting to go to the Esprit outlet after we'd been well behaved. It was the highlight of the whole trip.
Wendi Aarons [22:10]
We used to drive over to that outlet — I lived in the Reno-Tahoe area, and we'd drive my car over the mountain, I don't even know how it made it, it was a piece of junk car. But we'd go to that outlet, and it was a real outlet, not like what you have today.
Katie Fogarty [22:24]
Yeah, today's outlets are just trash — they make bad stuff for them.
Wendi Aarons [22:29]
Yeah, so I posted that on Threads the other day — ‘who remembers going to the San Francisco Esprit outlet, and also the Gunne Sax outlet in downtown San Francisco?’
Katie Fogarty [22:35]
Me too! Oh my gosh, I remember Gunne Sax from your book — it jogged it loose in my mind again. And that's actually kind of funny, because everyone looks like Sister Wives today with these frocks everyone's wearing — and we were wearing them too.
Wendi Aarons [22:50]
I know! That question on Threads got over three thousand likes and hundreds of comments — women remembering they'd been there. It was such a cool thing to read, I was reading the replies all day. People said they'd worked there, or their mom had bought bolts of Gunne Sax fabric and sewed their prom dress. It was a fun, nostalgic trip.
Katie Fogarty [23:13]
Nice, oh my gosh — so fun.
Wendi Aarons [23:24]
All right, next question: what's something you do that makes you feel badass?
Katie Fogarty [23:37]
Huh — probably making it through a ninety-minute hot yoga class. It's tough, especially with the way my schedule's working, I've been doing a ninety-minute class on Monday at six. It makes me feel — I don't know, badass, or maybe it's more that it makes me feel like an adult, actually. I don't know if that's the same thing as being badass, but it makes me feel like, oh my god, I did it.
Wendi Aarons [24:01]
Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah — powerful.
Katie Fogarty [24:06]
I did the thing I knew I was supposed to do, which I love doing — I always know that when I walk out, I feel incredible. But getting yourself to a ninety-minute hot, sweaty class at six o'clock on a Monday night is such a heavy lift, because you just want to be on your sofa wishing it were Friday. So it always makes me proud when I go and do it — that's my little form of badassery, lowercase b.
Wendi Aarons [24:30]
Lowercase? Hey, it still counts! So what's the demographic of the class — are you at all ages?
Katie Fogarty [24:40]
It's actually funny you should ask, because I joined this studio called Bodhi — there are two locations in New York. One is in the Flatiron area, and that's full of people who look like professional ballerinas or NBA basketball stars. As I said to my son, it's a class where everyone's already fit — whereas when I did Bikram in the suburbs where I lived, it was people like me trying to get fit, not people who are already ripped. But I've also been going to their Upper East Side studio, and the Upper East Side, for anyone who doesn't know New York, is kind of like the suburbs of New York — so that feels a little less intimidating. They're just regular people like me, trying to work it out.
Wendi Aarons [25:26]
Years ago, when I lived in the Reno-Tahoe area, I would go to my gym and feel pretty good about myself in the locker room — and then the showgirls would walk in, who also worked out there, and I'm like, oh my god. Similarly, I worked for Warner Brothers for a while in Burbank, and the Friends cast worked out at the Warner Brothers gym alongside me. So I'm like, why am I even here?
Katie Fogarty [25:52]
Oh my gosh, that's hilarious.
Wendi Aarons [25:55]
You feel like a different species altogether. Okay, so I'm very curious about this — what podcasts do you listen to?
Katie Fogarty [26:06]
I feel like people who listen to podcasts fall into three camps: people who are completely obsessed with true crime; people who want to be entertained and feel like they're hanging out — showing up for the Real Housewives podcasts, or spicy girlfriend stuff, or shows like yours, three funny women talking about celebrity memoirs. And I think the third camp is people who want information, and I fall into that camp. The podcasts I listen to are ones that teach me something. I listen to podcasts about podcasts — one called From Mic to Millions, which I've been a guest on, hosted by Sam Bregia, who does deep dives with people about nerdy podcast stuff: how do I get a better sponsorship package, how do I increase downloads, what does a newsletter do. I've also been a guest on another podcast about podcasts called Talking the Talk, started by a woman named Courtney Reimer, who does a great job interviewing other podcast hosts — I feel like I learn a lot every time. I also love How I Built This, because I'm fascinated by entrepreneurship — but even more, I'm addicted to their spin-off, The Advice Line, which brings back a former founder, just like you're being brought back today, and that founder answers questions from three budding entrepreneurs who call in with their issues. It's so interesting to hear smart people giving advice, and it feels so inspiring — there's no shortage of creative people bringing new things into the world, and I leave inspired by what they're building. And then when I'm in the mood for a good hang, I listen to Amy Poehler's Good Hang, and Wiser Than Me. Those aren't advice shows where I'm being taught something, but I still learn something, because I love the women who are on them — I admire the way Amy Poehler and Julia Louis-Dreyfus interview people and connect with their guests. So even though I'm just there for the vibes, I'm still picking things up and learning.
Wendi Aarons [28:19]
Yeah, she's great. I recently read that there are far fewer women who do podcasts than men. So what advice would you give a woman who's even just thinking about it? Do they have to have a great topic? Do they need to be a writer or journalist to tell the story? Or can they just jump in?
Katie Fogarty [28:55]
Interesting — no, go ahead and ask it again, since I cut you off, and I'll make it cleaner.
Wendi Aarons [29:03]
Okay — what's your advice for any woman who's toying around with starting a podcast? What's the best way to start? Is it finding a concept, finding a co-host? Do they have to have a writing or journalism background? What would you tell them?
Katie Fogarty [29:25]
My number one piece of advice would be: just start. Truly, just start. I thought about launching a podcast for two years before I did it, and had I gotten going earlier, I would have had two more years of fun, two more years of building and developing an audience. I think people get analysis paralysis, or they procrastinate — ‘educate, procrastinate’ — trying to learn everything. It's never been easier to podcast today, there's so much great technology — you could ask Claude or ChatGPT and be up and running within minutes, basically. So, big picture: get going. Number two, it depends on what you want. If you really want to try to make money and monetize it, it's useful to have a point of view and something that differentiates you. But if you're just out there to have fun, connect with people, and build a community, you can do that on any topic — you don't need to be an expert, you just need a spirit of curiosity and a willingness to do an astonishing amount of work, because it takes a lot of work to build and create a podcast every week.
Wendi Aarons [30:31]
That's a really great answer. My podcast, It's Pronounced Memoir, is with two very good friends of mine, who I actually met blogging way back when. It was my friend Marianne's idea to do a podcast about celebrity memoirs, which I'd never really read and wasn't that interested in — but I thought it gave me an excuse and a reason to talk to these two friends of mine more regularly, and that's the number one reason I did it. The second reason was that I wanted to challenge myself to learn some new technology and figure out how to put it all together. It's been absolutely amazing fun — so much joy having these conversations with them. The books are almost the last thing I care about. We have a very small audience, and we don't really care too much about that — it's more about having the experience of creating something together.
Katie Fogarty [31:40]
It's such a blast. And sometimes I'm envious of people who have co-hosts, because the way I do it is pretty solitary — I do get to hang out with a guest each week, but there's ten to fifteen, sometimes twenty hours of work happening as a solo endeavor. So it's marvelous that you've got co-hosts, and the show is so much fun, and you read great books — I was looking through your list, and we don't have any crossover. I haven't interviewed anyone you've featured, although I've read some of the books on your list — like Brooke Shields's Brooke Shields Is Not Allowed to Get Old, which was interesting. I don't read a ton of celebrity memoirs, but I did read that one. Let me think of the most recent ones — Jennette McCurdy's book, I'm Glad My Mom Died. And then you and I both picked up Cameron Crowe's The Uncool, but I toughed it out to the end — I kept saying, it's got to get better, but no.
Wendi Aarons [32:38]
Yeah, and then quickly put it back down. Just a minute on this — we read Billy Dee Williams's memoir, and I didn't know a lot about him, wasn't necessarily even a big fan, but he wrote about growing up in Harlem in the 1930s, and it was such a fascinating historical perspective that I wouldn't have ever sought out on my own. So just to hear these old Hollywood stories, or old American growing-up stories — Barbra Streisand's is amazing. I'd highly recommend, if you're in a reading rhythm, picking up a celebrity memoir, because it might surprise you.
Katie Fogarty [33:31]
I'm going to recommend Stories I Only Tell My Friends by Rob Lowe, which was honestly maybe the first celebrity memoir I read. I loved it so much — it was all about growing up in the '70s in Malibu, such a slice of life, a sunshine-soaked look at boyhood and young manhood. Some celebrity stuff comes in, we learn about his movies, but it's about so much more than that, and he's a wonderful writer — I so enjoyed that.
Wendi Aarons [34:02]
He really is — to the point where you're like, God, do you have to be good at everything?
Katie Fogarty [34:07]
Everything! You've got everything — you're gorgeous, and smart, and wise, and he seems to be such a great dad, too, which is what I loved.
Wendi Aarons [34:15]
Yeah, and then the inverse to his memoir would be Charlie Sheen's, which we also read — he also writes about growing up in Malibu, but obviously went down a different path. It was also a very interesting read, to hear it from his own perspective — though he's a terrible writer, least of his problems, anyway.
Katie Fogarty [34:37]
These are all these Gen X heartthrobs — it was fun. I actually watched that little documentary too, and I felt like a bit of an enabler, but what can you do?
Wendi Aarons [34:47]
I watched that too. One last thing — I'll plug Andrew McCarthy's memoir, Brat. He's a really, really good writer, we did an interview with him on our podcast, but definitely pick it up, it's great.
Katie Fogarty [34:59]
How fun — I haven't done that yet. He was one of my big crushes, I loved his dorky kind of vibe. Oh my god, this has been so much fun. I thought we were done — tell me...
Wendi Aarons [35:20]
Yes, I have two last questions for you. No, no, no, no, you can't get rid of me that fast. Okay, so — if you had to rename the stage of life we're in, midlife, where all your kids are out of the house, as are mine — what would you call it?
Katie Fogarty [35:41]
I have no answer to this question — I really wish I did, because I think midlife has a vocabulary problem. Am I in midlife? I'm fifty-six. I've seen people say things like ‘Queenagers,’ and I'm like, I don't know, that's too cute by far. I don't want to be an ‘ager’ again at all, like a teenager.
Wendi Aarons [35:44]
I know — that's why I'm asking you, because I don't know either. I'm fifty-eight.
Katie Fogarty [36:11]
I'm fine to just be ‘in the middle,’ or my friend Netta Jones calls it ‘the middle third,’ which I think is interesting, but also kind of hard to explain. Gina Pell, who's been a guest on the show, calls it not so much a stage but a state of being — to be a ‘Perennial,’ perennially in bloom and ever curious. But again, it's tricky. So if anyone listening has good ideas, let us know — DM me and then trademark it. There's no good answer, Wendi.
Wendi Aarons [36:46]
Wasn't there somebody a couple of years ago trying to call it ‘the Perennials’? Was that Gina? Okay, you can cut that part out. All right, this has been so fun, I could talk to you forever — but I know you have things to do, you have to get to hot yoga since it's Monday, right?
Katie Fogarty [36:51]
That was Gina — Gina Pell. Yeah. That's true, that's true — we'll see if I feel badass by seven-thirty.
Wendi Aarons [37:13]
Here's my yoga joke, I only have one: I'm not going to pay for hot yoga, because I live in Texas, so I'm just going to sit in my hot car and reach for things in the back seat.
Katie Fogarty [37:25]
Oh my god, I could have used that joke in New York — we just had a heat dome here, purple skies, hot temps.
Wendi Aarons [37:32]
Yeah, you've been hot. It hasn't looked so good there lately. Good, good, good — so you can get out, and even though you don't have a weighted vest, you can still go walk around. All right, so what do you have in store for this next year on the podcast? I know you book in advance because you're very organized — what can listeners expect?
Katie Fogarty [37:41]
It's gorgeous today, though. Exactly. Well, listeners can expect more great conversations with amazing women every Monday. And if listeners are really optimistic, maybe they'll expect to see me on YouTube — maybe I'll finally put that class to work, we'll see. It's funny, every year I've had goals for the show, but this year my goal is just to continue to enjoy it, be present, and create it, and not look too far ahead.
Katie Fogarty [38:27]
Every year I've had goals for the show — I've been looking to grow it, expand it, take it in new creative directions. My goal for this year is really just to be present and enjoy it. I have a lot going on in my personal life — my mom's cognitive decline has required a lot from me in terms of caregiving, and it's been challenging, beyond just the time, to juggle that and still feel joyful and present. I'm being very easy on myself — even though, as I said, my toxic trait is always doing too much, I'm sort of growing out of that a bit. I'm recognizing that it's okay for it to just be the way it is today, to enjoy it and continue to nurture it, rather than have wild ambitions for it — because this season of my life is requiring other things of me right now, and I can't do it all. So that's my answer: just keep showing up every Monday, hanging out with all the women who've made the show part of their lives.
Wendi Aarons [39:23]
That's a great answer. I have to say, I really admire how you've created such a sense of community, and how you've introduced me to so many women just through the podcast — I love Gabriela Espinoza, who I believe you introduced me to, who lives here, and I've spent a lot of time with her. I want to acknowledge everything you do on the podcast that creates a ripple effect with the women who listen.
Katie Fogarty [39:56]
Thank you, Wendi — thank you, thank you, thank you. I always say midlife is more fun with friends, and there are so many incredible midlife women. For anyone listening who's thinking about that podcast question Wendi asked earlier — start your own show, start connecting with people, pull people into your life. It's going to be so much richer for it.
Wendi Aarons [39:58]
Myself being one. Yes. Agreed — start a podcast and see where it takes you.
Katie Fogarty [40:23]
Wendi, this has been so much fun. Thank you for hanging out with me on my sixth birthday.
Wendi Aarons [40:25]
Yes — I was so proud to be asked, so thank you so much. It's been really fun, like I said, I could do this all day — but I can't, because you have to go to hot yoga.
Katie Fogarty [40:39]
Exactly. I'm off, I'm off, Wendi.
Beauties, if today's episode got you thinking about strength training — and it clearly got me thinking about it — check out our past conversations with Dr. Vonda Wright, Holly Rilinger, Jen Sherman, and more. You can find them all over on acertainagepod.com. And if Wendi's got you in the mood for a good celebrity memoir, check out her podcast, It's Pronounced Memoir, wherever you listen.
Six years, 130 countries, one listener in Fiji. Thank you for building this with me, for hanging out with me every Monday. Special thanks to Sound Advice Strategies for editing the show, and, as always, special thanks to Michael Mancini, who composed and produced our theme music. See you next time, and until then — age boldly, beauties.
